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Is Vladimir Putin Right? ----- Vladimir Putin insists that the West cheated Russia by expanding NATO eastward following the end of the Cold War. Is there anything to his claims? The short answer: It's complicated.
spiegel.de/international ^ | February 15, 2022 | Klaus Wiegrefe

Posted on 02/18/2022 7:42:23 PM PST by elpadre

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To: EasySt
“We could not therefore offer Poland and others membership in NATO.”

As I understand it..the western powers did not OFFER membership in NATO...those countries freely requested it.

I don't recall any of the "Warsaw Pact" freely requesting to join it...they were forced at gunpoint into it...as Putin is trying to do once again.

21 posted on 02/19/2022 4:14:40 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (Not Responding to Seagull Snark)
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To: elpadre

Here’s a novel idea! Let’s ask the people of Ukraine what they want! Who the hell do Biden and Putin think they are to decide the fate of humans in Ukraine? The so-called peace keeping orgs (UN and NATO) are world jokes serving no purpose other than to further enrich the wealthy of this world.


22 posted on 02/19/2022 4:58:41 AM PST by eeriegeno (Checks and balances??? What checks and balances?)
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To: ClearCase_guy
" The Soviet Union put missiles in Cuba, and we totally freaked out. NATO tries to expand into Ukraine, Russia freaks out and we think they are over-reacting? This is a double standard. The western powers are causing the problem here. "

No, this is too much like the liberal argument that since Israel and the and has nukes then so should Iran etc. Unlike Putin, the US has not sought to conquer and take away countries independence for perhaps about 100 years, but has spend billions fighting proxy wars against Soviets and now Putin (Iran, Syria) and in aid to such countries as Iraq and Afghanistan and in alliance building (and US reached $637 million to Ukraine in 2020) against Russia (yet, despite sanctions, Russia receives an average of $274,780,483 in foreign aid from the US per year, and once one of the biggest recipients of US foreign aid, receiving around $1.5 billion annually from 2005 to 2008m much for disarmament, plus $163,725,255 to Georgia; $124,103,154 to Turkey; and Bosnia and Herzegovina receives an average of $58,567,551) whereas the Soviet Union sought to conquer and take away countries independence (even as by puppetry) by nature, and Putin longs for that glory, and in Russia even outlaws any evangelism by any means except by his state church.

Meaning without the threat of US intervention Russia would expand to capture NATO countries and more, while without the threat of Russia and China the US would need only be taking action against militaristic Islam, and significantly reduce its military spending, which it did after the fall of the Soviet Union.

However, that does not mean the US military would not look for practice, and it seems to me the exclusion of Russia in the Kosovo intervention as well as the expansion of NATO - which meant more US money*- when Russia was weak was not wise, and has provided a pretext for Putin's push into the West, including parts of South America. As was that Democracy was automatically going to work for corrupt atheistic and institutionalized religion Russia. Only when Russia under Putin began to seek to become a military threat could NATO expansion be justified, which I believe Putin would have done anyway. And to counter Putin's complain of the West expanding NATO when Russia was weak, it can point to the Soviets history (the demise of which Putin laments) and his constant chest-thumping and aid to Iran etc and alliance with China and military threat to Ukraine as justification NATO.

Only the naive would believe Communism as well as Putin does not seek oppressive world dominion by military coercion, even if the subjects were like the Amish (even more so). *a1997 Pentagon set the range [of NATO expansion] as between $27 billion and $35 billion over 10years; a 1996 RAND Corporation study, $17 billion to $82 billion; a USCongressional Budget Office (CBO) study, $21 billion to $125 billion (http://comw.org/pda/nato699.html)

List by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute
2022 Fact Sheet (for 2021)[1]
SIPRI Military Expenditure Database[5]
List by the International Institute for Strategic Studies
Top 15 Defence Budgets 2021
[6]
RankCountrySpending
(US$ bn)
% of GDP% of Global Spending

23 posted on 02/19/2022 5:08:49 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: eeriegeno
Let's ask the people of Ukraine what they want!

Putin is threatening invasion, because every poll in Ukraine shows they overwhelmingly want to join the EU and not some Russian trade bloc. Also, majority in Ukraine want to join NATO.

24 posted on 02/19/2022 5:15:19 AM PST by tlozo
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To: ClearCase_guy
Military expenditure, share of GDP
List by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute
2022 Fact Sheet (for 2021)[1]
SIPRI Military Expenditure Database[5]
Russian and Chinese military spending are actually far higher than the chart due to captive markets and Purchasing Price Parity in those countries.[3][4]

RankCountrySpending
(US$ bn)
% of GDP% of Global Spending
06Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia[a][b]57.58.42.9%
14Israel Israel21.75.61.1%
04Russia Russia61.74.33.1%
01United States United States778.03.739%
03India India72.92.93.7%
10South Korea South Korea45.72.82.3%
05United Kingdom United Kingdom59.22.73.0%
World total 1,9812.4100%
08France France52.72.12.7%
12Australia Australia27.52.11.4%
02China China[a]252.01.713%
11Italy Italy28.91.61.5%
07Germany Germany52.81.42.7%
13Canada Canada22.81.41.1%
15Brazil Brazil19.71.41.0%
09Japan Japan49.11.02.5%

25 posted on 02/19/2022 5:29:53 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: eeriegeno

*Here’s a novel idea! Let’s ask the people of Ukraine what they want!*

And the Falklanders? It’s expensive to maintain.


26 posted on 02/19/2022 6:13:24 AM PST by DIRTYSECRET
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To: DIRTYSECRET

Putin is a modern day Hitler.


27 posted on 02/19/2022 6:23:08 AM PST by kenmcg (tHE WHOLE )
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To: DIRTYSECRET

I still think that it would be a better idea if Joe just took on Vlad out behind the gym! Give them both dull paring knives for the sport of it!


28 posted on 02/19/2022 11:36:52 AM PST by eeriegeno (Checks and balances??? What checks and balances?)
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