The Real Brake on The EV Revolution

WSJ Heard on the Street ^ | Jan 29, 2022 | Stephen Wilmot

[DugwayDuke]

setter wrote: “Ev companies are selling every one they can make. This is not virture signaling.. People are finding value in them over ICE for their use.”
So they’re selling a few, but nothing like the numbers of ICE they’re selling. If they’re so much value, then why are they so heavily subsidized?

[Dead Corpse]

Batteries are stupid. Even super-caps are only marginally better.

Find a way to GENERATE on-board -e and you will kill the ICE in less than a year.

[fireman15]

Still sore you didn't invest in Tesla?

Tesla is a weird phenomenon. It would not have succeeded without government incentives and the strange belief that electric vehicles are somehow better for the environment and will have some type of impact on cyclic weather patterns. This belief requires willful ignorance that the electrical grid which is the source of power for these vehicles supposedly gets 20% of its power from unreliable “renewables” and is 100% dependent on “fossil fuels” to keep the lights, heat and AC running when there is a snow storm, the clouds roll in or the wind stops blowing at the right speed.

The belief also requires willful ignorance about how an electric grid already stressed to the near breaking point in many areas will be able to handle a huge additional load. It requires willful ignorance about the power lost in transmission from power sources through transmission lines, transformers, and either house wiring or wiring to a recharge station.

Then there is the power lost when recharging and discharging the batteries. During a quick charge especially, a lot of heat is created both in the battery and in the charger. A lot of heat can also be created when the batteries are being discharged. Both the batteries and the chargers require some type of cooling system. This is lost power. This is not to mention all of the additional power it takes to push around batteries weighing up to a thousand pounds or more within an electric vehicle.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1114188_new-approach-to-electric-car-battery-cooling-immerse-cells-in-coolant

The belief also requires willful ignorance about where the lithium and other “rare earth” elements required for the batteries for electric vehicles actually come from. Remember all the pictures of open pit coal strip mines that we have been inundated with over the years? Lithium mines make them look like a kid playing in the sand. Along with miles and miles of "evaporation pools".

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54900418

All that said, I have nothing against electric vehicles themselves. I actually think they are great. They are cool toys, and when is the last time you saw an electrically powered golf cart or bicycle go up in flames? (With the possible exception of so called "hoverboards" which are cheap scooters without handlebars.) I just do not believe that they are "the solution" for our country's transportation needs in the immediate future. Those who believe otherwise are deluding themselves.

[CA Conservative]

What’s the plan if I have to evacuate from a hurricane or I get stuck in a snow storm on the highway or any other immediate emergency and the gas tank is empty?

In that case, a call to AAA or to a friend with a gas can will fix your problem. Not true with an EV.

[TexasGator]

“In that case, a call to AAA or to a friend with a gas can will fix your problem.”

Only they will not be able to reach you if you!

[fireman15]

1. Regarding battery fires/lithium
GM has fixed that problem. It's mute point anyway. Most ev’s co’s are going to a solid state battery that uses a solid electrolyte and not the lithium that uses a liquid electrolyte that catches fire...

With all due respect Setter... you do not know what you are talking about. They add flame retardants to lithium ion battery electrolytes but they tend to hamper performance. And yes, they are working on lithium-ion cells which have electrolytes that are solid and less flammable but they are still under development and NO electric cars are using them currently. But in ten or twenty years when they become available probably with much lower performance and weight specs... you can bet that the government and manufacturers will want and probably require you to replace your dangerous batteries with safer batteries at an expense that will be far more than what your car is worth.

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/lithium-ion-batteries-flames-fire-prevention-technology

You certainly have not forgotten the Finnish man who blew up his Tesla when he found at that he was going to have to spend $23,000 to get the battery fixed.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/24/tesla-explodes-after-mechanics-charge-man-23k-for-new-battery/

[fireman15]

GM has fixed that problem.

Is this what you call fixed?

“Two Chevrolet Bolt EVs recently caught fire after they were repaired as part of a recall last year that affected nearly 51,000 vehicles in the United States, federal safety officials announced on Wednesday.”

“Now, owners of Chevrolet Bolts from the model years 2017 through 2019 have been urged to park their vehicles outdoors after charging and to avoid leaving them while they charge overnight, the officials and the car's manufacturer said on Wednesday.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/15/business/chevrolet-bolts-ev-fire-recall.html

[GOPJ]

“Now, owners of Chevrolet Bolts from the model years 2017 through 2019 have been urged to park their vehicles outdoors after charging and to avoid leaving them while they charge overnight, the officials and the car's manufacturer said on Wednesday.”

What makes this really funny is Chevy went WOKE-cheap on their wire coasting - using soy based coatings rather tan petrolatum. - Guess what? Turns out squirrels eat soy coatings.

[setter]

Ev’s have some problems (GM mostly) but they will be fixed. It’s new technology.

Ev company’s are coming out with game changers in 2003 2004 (toyota especially) that will be long range and faster charging. The fact is EV technology is improving repidly each year

Chargers are being put in everywhere.

Every car company is building EV’s, Toyota is coming out with 30 Ev’s by 2030. Mercedes is going 100% electric by 2030 and Chrysler by 2035

These companies have very smart people working for them. if they did not think they were viable they would not be going electric.

The public is finding value in them. October 2020 3/10 US people said they would buy a EV, not it is 4/10 and growing.
The battery problems range, charging times etc will be solved in a few years.

Toyota is going to warranty their motors for a million miles. Toyota said their brakes will last 250k miles because the regenative electric motors do 90-95% of the stopping.

As I said new models will be coming out in 2003-2004 that will change the publics perception even more.

[fireman15]

What makes this really funny is Chevy went WOKE-cheap on their wire coasting - using soy based coatings rather tan petrolatum. - Guess what? Turns out squirrels eat soy coatings.

More unintended consequences of greenie nonsense.

We have a similar problem where we live. Everyone is replacing their water pipes with PEX tubing which is made out of high density polyethylene, but the mild climate in the coastal part of the Northwest is the perfect habitat for mice and rats who chew holes in PEX not to eat, but I guess for their own amusement. It is nearly impossible to keep them out all of the time. My brother started out using PEX on his old house project but ended up switching it all back to copper after several already sealed in water leak disasters.

A side note, unknown to most we are also in the middle of the “spider belt”. They are mostly harmless varieties with an occasional cranky black widow, brown recluse or other venomous little nasty. But if you get rid of the spiders other bugs multiply rapidly here.

[GOPJ]

More unintended consequences of greenie nonsense.

BINGO!

[fireman15]

As I said new models will be coming out in 2003-2004 that will change the publics perception even more.

And as I told you I do not have a problem with electric vehicles per se, but they are not the solution to our nation's transportation needs. New models are not going to change the basic issues. A gallon of gasoline contains approximately the same amount of energy as 33.8 KWH and weighs six pounds. A 100 KWH Tesla battery weighs 1300 pounds and it is recommended that you do not charge it past 90% or discharge it to less than 20% to preserve its longevity, and with the cost of a replacement likely around $40,000... following these recommendations is probably a very good idea.

The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery used in a cell phone or computer is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. Electric vehicles are new enough to the market that we do not know what the typical useful life of the batteries are going to be, but even assuming a 1000 charge discharge cycles which is far more than what one would typically expect from a lithoum-ion cell, that comes to $40 per charge/discharge cycle along with the cost of the electricity to charge it. Do you realize that on average, it currently costs between $0.30- $0.60 kWh to charge an electric vehicle at a charging station. So going from 20% to 90% on a hundred KWH battery is going to cost between $21 an $42 at charging station. That comes to $61 to $82. Will that even take you 300 miles? Maybe?

The true cost of driving an electric vehicle is far higher than what is believed by adherents, and if you factor in the depreciation of the vehicle... even with the Biden caused price increase in gasoline they cost far more to drive than a normal vehicle with an internal combustion engine. And that is what people care about the most along with the plethora of disadvantages that do not work for many people.