Posted on 01/09/2022 8:16:11 AM PST by ChicagoConservative27
After expending so much blood and treasure the Confederacy would just phase out slavery.
How absurd.
Who cares? The issue of independence does not revolve around the moral approval of others. Given that all the states that became independent in 1776 were slave states, it isn't even a question germane to the topic.
Once again people try to divert attention from the real issue of the war to their pet moral issue. The real issue of the war is that states had a right to independence, even states with morality of which you don't approve.
For the North to send reinforcements and supplies to Fort Sumter was lawful even if contrary to the wishes of the Confederate government. Again, the orders of the relief and resupply force were to not fire unless fired upon.
Not even Jefferson Davis characterized this force as "firing first." In deliberations with the Confederate cabinet, he called the expedition a "hostile act" and an "act of coercion" -- but not one of "firing first."
When the Confederate government in fact fired on Fort Sumter, it started the Civil War and correctly incurred the moral opprobrium of doing so.
Notably, in the Confederate cabinet, Secretary of State Robert Toombs of Georgia protested that an attack on Sumter would be "suicide, murder," and would stir a "hornet's nest" of hostility to the South. "It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal," Toombs pleaded. After the discussion, the Cabinet nevertheless voted to demand the surrender of Sumter.
You question whether anyone who supported secession saw military action as needed to prevent the Confederacy from deflating. Here are some examples:
On March 25, 1861, The Charleston Mercury, opined that “We are in danger of being dragged back eventually to the old political affiliation with the states and people from whom we have just cut loose.”
Similarly, the Mobile Mercury contended that "The country is sinking into a fatal apathy and the spirit and even the patriotism of the people is oozing out under this do-nothing policy. If something is not done pretty soon, decisive, either evacuation or expulsion, the whole country will become so disgusted with the sham of southern independence that the first chance the people get at a popular election they will turn the whole movement topsy-turvy so bad that it never on earth can be righted again."
As one supporter in Alabama warned Davis, “Unless you sprinkle blood on the face of the Southern people they will be back in the old Union in less than ten days.”
The secession of Virginia was essential to the Confederate cause, but Virginia held back so long as peace continued. In a Joint Resolution adopted on January 21, 1861, the Virginia Assembly, without a single negative vote in either house, declined immediate secession -- but also resolved that she would join the Confederacy if a war started.
In effect, Virginia’s legislature had given Davis an incentive to go to war if he wanted Virginia to secede and join the Confederacy. Davis received private advice to that effect. L.Q. Washington wrote, "I fear the present Virginia Convention will not pass an ordinance of secession unless a collision or war ensues; then public feeling will force them to it. There is a majority of old Federal submissionists, who got in by pretending to be resistance men."
Even in public, there was blunt advice to go to war to secure Virginia’s secession. In a speech to a Charleston audience on April 10, 1861, Virginian Roger Pryor urged "But I assure you that just as certain as tomorrow's sun will rise upon us, just so certain will Virginia be a member of the Southern Confederacy; and I will tell your Governor what will put her in the Southern Confederacy in less than an hour by Shrewsbury clock. Strike a blow!"
That same day, Davis received a telegram from Louis T. Wigfall, urging, "General Beauregard will not act without your order. Let me suggest to you to send the order to him to begin the attack as soon as he is ready. Virginia is excited by the preparations, and a bold stroke on our side will complete her purposes. Policy and prudence are urgent upon us to begin at once."
This question has nothing to do with “moral approval”, or 1776, or being germane to a topic, yada yada yada. I fear you are floating away on a cumulus nimbus, totally detached from facts on the ground. Here you go on with more useless prattle:
Once again people try to divert attention from the real issue of the war to their pet moral issue. The real issue of the war is that states had a right to independence, even states with morality of which you don't approve.
Such gibberish! This is not about what “I” may or may not approve. So the War was fought over whether or not a State had a right to independence? Ha ha ha. That’s a good one! Ya know, you seem very sensitive to the issue of “Slaves and Slavery” when applied to the South. Yet you love to talk about those subjects when applied to the North....as if you are seeking to level out the moral playing field. Well good luck with that. I see morality and immorality spread evenly over the North and South. I don’t play the morality game in this topic.
In any event, let’s get back to my very germane question:
Q.”How many of the States that Seceded, to join the Confederacy, were slave-free States?“
(My father always told me that, “I don’t know.” is an honest answer. But I think that you are afraid of the answer because the real answer will topple your house of cards.)
Even before secession, the Republican Party at its founding and in its earliest party platforms contended that in continuing to tolerate the existence and expansion of slavery, America was abandoning its foundational belief in liberty as stated in the Declaration of independence.
That you believe this speaks well of your intentions; I am sympathetic to those notions myself.
However, when you argue that the DOI’s complaint about “merciless Indian Savages” was Jefferson's way of reinforcing his belief that all men are created equal and that the document's intention was to make native Americans electors, jurists, and college presidents - - that I don't believe.
And for good reason: I don't believe it because it is not true.
Historian Lerone Bennett, Jr. takes on another perennial myth stemming from Lincoln's Gettysburg address.
Bennett, quoting from the speech: “Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.”
Then Bennett states: “Abraham Lincoln didn't believe that.”
Bennett continuing: “No discerning person believes that Abraham Lincoln believed on November 19, 1863, that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson believed on July 4, 1776, that they were conceiving a nation dedicated to the proposition that the slaves at Monticello and Mount Vernon were equal to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson in the same way that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were equal to George III.”
Since those words are not mine, I hope you can look at them objectively.
Bennett may have been a triple axe murderer; I don't know. I learned of him by way of woodpusher. His words quoted here do resonate for me.
That's not what those orders said. They said "if resisted."
Just interfering with their efforts was sufficient to trigger an attack, but let's not fool ourselves. Lincoln knew full well sending those warships was going to provoke an attack.
Not even Jefferson Davis characterized this force as "firing first." In deliberations with the Confederate cabinet, he called the expedition a "hostile act" and an "act of coercion" -- but not one of "firing first."
You are splitting hairs. Committing a "hostile act" is the same thing as "firing first."
Here are some examples:
Opinions. You can get a range of those on any issue.
It is dishonest to argue that they were initially joined on the issue of slavery. At the time it was written, none of the signers intended that the document be read as saying anything about slavery or how wrong it was.
That was a meaning fabricated into the document at a later time.
Even before secession, the Republican Party at its founding and in its earliest party platforms contended that in continuing to tolerate the existence and expansion of slavery,
Slavery wasn't going to "expand." I've proven that to any reasonable person. Secondly, there was absolutely nothing they could do legally about the existence of slavery in those states in which it remained.
Once again, the "slavery" argument is an attempt to misdirect people about what was really happening. The US Federal government in 1860 was neutral on the issue of slavery and simply regarded it as a state issue. The federal government had no legitimate business doing anything at all about the issue of slavery, because it was not within it's mandate to enforce morality on the membership of the Union.
The US Federal government's only legitimate reason to go to war with the south, and that's only if you buy their phony baloney legal argument, was to "preserver the Union", and as I have shown, that wasn't even a legitimate use of Federal authority.
States had a right to leave. Their right to leave does not get overridden because people don't like their reasons, and that's even if you accept the claim as to what their reasons were.
They had a right to leave for any reason that seemed to them to be appropriate. The US was an organization which was voluntarily joined, and they should have free will to leave it.
I suspect it depended on which side instigated war and broke the peace. The Virginians were for peace. Here is what the Virginia Convention said on April 8, 1861:
Two articles from the Daily Nashville patriot (Nashville, TN) of April 11, 1861:
Titled: From VirginiaRichmond, April 8 - Wise's resolution that Virginia consents to the recognition of the independence of the seceded States, and that they be treated as independent, and laws to effect the separation, was adopted by a vote of 128 against 20.
During the recess, a report of a number of war vessels off Charleston harbor was received, which produced great sensation.
Titled: From Charleston
Charleston, April 9 - Prodigious preparations are progressing.
Wigfall is serving as a common soldier.
There are no war vessels outside, as far as known.
April 8, of course, was after it became publicly known that the Federal Government (i.e., Lincoln) was sending warships and troops somewhere south. Fort Sumter, Fort Pickens, and Texas were among the places where these ships and troops were speculated to be headed.
Here is an article from Daily Ohio statesman (Columbus, Ohio), April 11, 1861
Virginia ConventionRichmond, April 10. - The following resolution was adopted (my red bold below):
Resolved. that Virginia will wait a reasonable time for an answer to her propositions, but with the indispensable condition that a pacific policy be adopted towards the seceded States, no attempt made to subject them to Federal authority, or to reinforce forts, or to recapture forts, arsenals and other property, or exact payment of duties; and that all forts in the seceded States ought to be evacuated.
The extreme Union men in the Convention say they are not to be moved by telegraphic dispatches, and indicate that they will stand by the Government, if steamers are attacked. The Conservatives entertain different sentiments.
The Convention amended the 13th resolution and passed it. It is as follows:
In the opinion of this Convention, the people of Virginia will regard any action of the Federal Government or of the Confederate States, tending to produce a collision of forces, pending the efforts to effect an adjustment of existing difficulties, as unwise and injurious to the interests of both, and they would regard any such action on the part of either as leaving them free to determine their own future policy.
The convention adjourned.
On April 15, Lincoln called for 75,000 men to invade the South. On April 17, Virginia seceded subject to the approval of her people by a vote. Lincoln's call for troops to invade the South drove three other states to secede.
I am reminded by what Alexander Hamilton said in the New York Convention that ratified the Constitution for New York State (my bold below):
It has been well observed, that to coerce the States is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised. A failure of compliance will never be confined to a single State. This being the case, can we suppose it wise to hazard a civil war? Suppose Massachusetts or any large State should refuse, and Congress should attempt to compel them, would not they have influence to procure assistance, especially from those States which are in the same situation as themselves? What picture does this present to our view? A complying State at war with a non-complying State; Congress marching the troops of one State into the bosom of another; this State collecting auxiliaries, and forming, perhaps, a majority against its federal head. Here is a nation at war with itself! Can any reasonable man be well disposed towards a Government which makes war and carnage the only means of supporting itself -- a Government that can exist only by the sword? Every such war must involve the innocent with the guilty.
Hamilton voted for New York's ratification of the Constitution that said the following:
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New York; July 26, 1788.WE the Delegates of the People of the State of New York, duly elected and Met in Convention, having maturely considered the Constitution for the United States of America, agreed to on the seventeenth day of September, in the year One thousand Seven hundred and Eighty seven, by the Convention then assembled at Philadelphia in the Common-wealth of Pennsylvania (a Copy whereof precedes these presents) and having also seriously and deliberately considered the present situation of the United States, Do declare and make known. ...
That the Powers of Government may be reassumed by the People, whensoever it shall become necessary to their Happiness; ...
... Under these impressions and declaring that the rights aforesaid cannot be abridged or violated, and that the Explanations aforesaid are consistent with the said Constitution ... We the said Delegates, in the Name and in the behalf of the People of the State of New York Do by these presents Assent to and Ratify the said Constitution.
An attack from who or what? Seagulls?
I am surprised you would admit that Moultrie, at least from the perspective of Major Anderson, was open to attack by Confederates as early as Christmas 1860. That doesn’t jibe with your other hypotheticals.
The fact is that he decided to move into Sumter when there was an uptick in the number of Confederate boat patrols in the waterway between Moultrie and Sumter. In any case, Sumter, a Federal Property, sat there unmanned, his for the taking. He was forced to take the initiative. Was it these increased patrols that precipitated the War?
[Rockingham #404] Again, the orders of the relief and resupply force were to not fire unless fired upon.[DiogenesLamp #408] That's not what those orders said. They said "if resisted."
There were multiple orders, some pertained an attack on Fort Pickens in Florida, and some pertained to an attack on Fort Sumter. Orders also went to Capt. Mercer of the Navy's Sumter mission flagship. Capt. Mercer found himself with no ship and no mission.
There can be no doubt that Lincoln waited for the Senate to adjourn and began a war as soon as it was out of session. He did not call them back into session until July 4, 1861 when the war was a fait accompli. He then delivered a message to the special session of congress where he engaged in terminological inexactitude.
Within eight days of taking office, orders of March 12, 1861 issued from the Lincoln administration to reinforce Fort Pickens and thereby violate the armistice that was in effect. These orders to Army Captain Vogdes were delayed until after the Senate adjourned on March 28, 1861 and then delivered by USS Crusader on March 31, 1861. Capt. Vogdes delivered them to Navy Captain Adams on April 1, 1861. Capt. Adams refused to comply with the orders.
There is an interesting sequence of events.
3/04/1861 — Lincoln inaugurated.
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Courtesy of Cornell University Library, Making of America Digital Collection.
Title: Official records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion; Series I - Volume 4: Operations in the Gulf of Mexico (November 15, 1860 - June 7, 1861); Operations on the Atlantic Coast (January 1, 1861 - May 13, 1861); Operations on the Potamac and Rappahannock Rivers (January 5, 1861 - December 7, 1861)
Author: United States. Naval War Records Office
Collection: Books: Civil War Official Histories
Title: The war of the rebellion: a compilation of the official records of the Union and Confederate armies; Series 1 - Volume 1
Author: United States. War Dept., John Sheldon Moody, Calvin Duvall Cowles, Frederick Caryton Ainsworth, Robert N. Scott, Henry Martyn Lazelle, George Breckenridge Davis, Leslie J. Perry, Joseph William Kirkley
Collection: Books: Civil War Official Histories
A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774-1875
Senate Journal
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BREAKING THE ARMISTICE -- MARCH 12, 1861
One Month Before Events at Fort Sumter
Official Records, Army, Series 1, Vol 1, Chap. 4, p. 360:
HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY,
Washington, March 12, 1861.Captain VOGDES, U. S. Army,
On board U. S. sloop-of-war Brooklyn, lying off Port Pickens:SIR: At the first favorable moment you will land with your company, re-enforce Fort Pickens, and hold the same till further orders. Report frequently, if opportunities present themselves, on the condition of the fort and the circumstances around you.
I write by command of Lieutenant-General Scott.
I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E. D. TOWNSEND,
Assistant Adjutant-General.
Initiating delivery of these orders was delayed until after the Senate adjourned on March 28, 1861. They were delivered via USS Crusader to Capt. Vogdes, off Pensacola, on March 31, 1861, and by Capt. Vogdes to Navy Capt. Adams on April 1, 1861. Capt. Adams refused to comply with the orders issued by General Scott, asserting it would violate a binding agreement and "would be considered not only a declaration but an act of war."
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THE SENATE ADJOURNED
March 28, 1861
SENATE JOURNAL, March 25, 1861:
Resolved, That the President be requested, if, in his opinion, not incompatible with the public interest, to communicate to the Senate the dispatches of Major Robert Anderson to the War Department during the time he has been in command at Fort Sumter.
SENATE JOURNAL, March 27, 1861:
The following message was received from the President of the United States, by Mr. Nicolay, his Secretary:To the Senate of the United States:
I have received a copy of a resolution of the Senate, passed on the 25th instant, requesting me, if, in my opinion, not incompatible with the public interest, to communicate to the Senate the dispatches of Major Robert Anderson to the War Department during the time he has been in command of Fort Sumter.
On examining the correspondence thus called for, I have, with the highest respect for the Senate, come to the conclusion that, at the present moment, the publication of it would be inexpedient.
ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
Washington, March 26, 1861.
END of the Senate Journal for March 28, 1861:
Mr. Powell, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States and inform him that, unless he may have any further communication to make, the Senate is now ready to close the present session by an adjournment, reported that they had performed the duty assigned them, and that the President replied that he had no further communication to make.Mr. Foster submitted the following resolution:
Resolved, That the Senate will adjourn without day at four o'clock this afternoon.
The Senate proceeded by unanimous consent to consider the said resolution; and, having been amended on the motion of Mr. Hale, it was agreed to as follows:
Resolved, That the Senate do now adjourn without day.
Whereupon
The President pro tempore declared the Senate adjourned without day.
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THE NEXT DAY LINCOLN GOT BUSY.
Lincoln did not fail to obtain Congressional approval because Congress was not in session, he waited until Congress adjourned and commenced to initiate a war.
Official Records, Army, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 227:
Order from the President of the United States to the Secretary of the Navy, regarding cooperation with the War Department for active service.EXECUTIVE MANSION,
March 29, 1861.Sir: I desire that an expedition, to move by sea, be got ready to sail as early as the 6th of April next, the whole according to memorandum attached; and that you cooperate with the Secretary of War for that object. Your obedient servant,
A. LINCOLN.
Hon. SECRETARY NAVY.
The memorandum attached called for:
From the Navy, three ships of war, the Pocahontas, the Pawnee and the Harriet Lane; and 300 seamen, and one month's stores.
From the War Department, 200 men, ready to leave garrison; and one year's stores.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 107-8:
April 1, 1861 by General Scott
April 2, 1861 approved by Abraham Lincoln
To: Brevet Colonel Harvey Brown, U.S. ArmyYou have been designated to take command of an expedition to reinforce and hold Fort Pickens in the harbor of Pensacola. You will proceed to New York where steam transportation for four companies will be engaged; — and putting on board such supplies as you can ship without delay proceed at once to your destination. The object and destination of this expedition will be communicated to no one to whom it is not already known.
Signed: Winfield Scott
Signed approved: Abraham Lincoln
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 232:
Letter from Secretary of War to G. V. Fox, esq., assigning him to command expedition for the relief of Fort Sumter.WAR DEPARTMENT, Washington, April 4, 1861.
Sir: It having been determined to succor Fort Sumter, you have been selected for this important duty. Accordingly, you will take charge of the transports provided in New York, having the troops and supplies on board, to the entrance of Charleston Harbor, and endeavor, in the first instance, to deliver the subsistence. If you are opposed in this you are directed to report the fact to the senior naval officer off the harbor, who will be instructed by the Secretary of the Navy to use his entire force to open a passage, when you will, if possible, effect an entrance and place both the troops and supplies in Fort Sumter. I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
SIMON CAMERON, Secretary of War
Captain G. V. Fox, Washington, D. C.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 232-3:
Instructions from Lieutenant-General Scott, U. S. Army, to Lieutenant-Colonel Scott, U. S. Army, regarding expedition for reenforcement of Fort Sumter.Confidential.
HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY, Washington, D. C., April 4, 1861.
Sir: This letter will be handed to you by Captain G. V. Fox, ex-officer of the Navy, and a gentleman of high standing, as well as possessed of extraordinary nautical ability. He is charged by high authority here with the command of an expedition (under cover of certain ships of war) whose object is to reenforce Fort Sumter. To embark with Captain Fox, you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about 200, to be immediately organized at Fort Columbus, with a competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence. A large surplus of the latter indeed, as great as the vessels of the expedition will take with other necessaries, will be needed for the augmented garrison of Fort Sumter. The subsistence and other supplies should be assorted like those which were provided by you and Captain Ward, of the Navy, for a former expedition. Consult Captain Fox and Major Eaton on the subject, and give all necessary orders in my name to fit out the expedition, except that the hiring of vessels will be left to others. Some fuel must be shipped. Oil, artillery, implements, fuses, cordage, slow matches, mechanical levers, and guns, etc., should also be put on board. Consult also, if necessary (confidentially), Colonel Tompkins and Major Thornton.
Respectfully, yours,
WINFIELD SCOTT.
Lieutenant-Colonel H. L. SCOTT, Aid-de-Camp, etc.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 110:
April 1, 1861
To Captain H.A. Adams
Commanding Naval Forces off PensacolaHerewith I send you a copy of an order received by me last night. You will see by it that I am directed to land my command at the earliest opportunity. I have therefore to request that you will place at my disposal such boats and other means as will enable me to carry into effect the enclosed order.
Signed: I. Vogdes, Capt. 1st Artly. Comdg.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 110:
Captain Adams REFUSED TO OBEY THE ORDER and reported to the Secretary of the Navy as follows: (April 1, 1861)
The instructions from General Scott to Captain Vogdes are of old date (March 12) and may have been given without a full knowledge of the condition of affairs here.It would be considered not only a declaration but an act of war; and would be resisted to the utmost.
Both sides are faithfully observing the agreement (armistice) entered into by the United States Government and Mr. Mallory and Colonel Chase, which binds us not to reinforce Fort Pickens unless it shall be attacked or threatened. It binds them not to attack it unless we should attempt to reinforce it.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 110-11:
The Secretary of the Navy issued a CLASSIFIED response to Capt. Adams:
April 6, 1861Your dispatch of April 1st is received. The Department regrets that you did not comply with the request of Capt. Vogdes. You will immediately on the first favorable opportunity after receipt of this order, afford every facility to Capt. Vogdes to enable him to land the troops under his command, it being the wish and intention of the Navy Department to co-operate with the War Department, in that object.
Signed: Gideon Welles, Secty. of the Navy
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 210:
April 11, 1861 — USS Supply—- Ships Log
April 11th at 9 P.M. the Brooklyn got under way and stood in toward the harbor; and during the night landed troops and marines on board, to reinforce Fort Pickens.
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Lincoln relieved Captain Mercer of command of the USS Powhatan. This was coordinated with Secretary of State Seward. Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles was not informed.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 109:
Order of the President of the United States to Captain Mereer, U. S. Navy, detaching him from the command of U S. S. Powhatan.WASHINGTON CITY, April 1, 1861.
Sir: Circumstances render it necessary to place in command of your ship, and for a special purpose, an officer who is duly informed and instructed in relation to the wishes of the Government, and you will therefore consider yourself detached; but in taking this step the Government does not intend in the least to reflect upon your efficiency or patriotism; on the contrary, have the fullest confidence in your ability to perform any duty required of you.
Hoping soon to be able to give you a better command than the one you now enjoy, and trusting that you will have full confidence in the disposition of the Government toward you, I remain,
ABRAHAM LINCOLN
Captain SAMUEL MERCER, U. S. Navy.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 108:
April 1, 1861
To: Lt. D.D. Porter, USNYou will proceed to New York and with least possible delay assume command of any steamer available.
Proceed to Pensacola Harbor, and, at any cost or risk, prevent any expedition from the main land reaching Fort Pickens, or Santa Rosa.
You will exhibit this order to any Naval Officer at Pensacola, if you deem it necessary, after you have established yourself within the harbor.
This order, its object, and your destination will be communicated to no person whatever, until you reach the harbor of Pensacola.
Signed: Abraham Lincoln
Recommended signed: Wm. H. Seward
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 108:
April 1, 1861
Telegram
To: Commandant, Brooklyn Navy YardFit out Powhatan to go to sea at the earliest possible moment, under sealed orders. Orders by confidential messenger go forward tomorrow.
Signed: Abraham Lincoln
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 109:
April 1, 1861
To: Commandant, Brooklyn Navy YardYou will fit out the Powhatan without delay. Lieutenant Porter will relieve Captain Mercer in command of her. She is bound on secret service; and you will under no circumstances communicate to the Navy Department the fact that she is fitting out.
Signed: Abraham Lincoln
April 5, 1861 - Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles sends orders to Captain Mercer of the USS Powhatan, not knowing about the secret orders of Seward/Lincoln. Lincoln relieved Captain Mercer four days before, on April Fool's Day.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 235:
Confidential instructions from the Secretary of the Navy to Captain Mercer, U. S. Navy, commanding U. S. S. Powhatan, regarding expedition to Fort Sumter.Confidential.] NAVY DEPARTMENT, April 5, 1861.
Sir: The U. S. steamers Powhatan, Pawnee, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will compose a naval force, under your command, to be sent to the vicinity of Charleston, S. C., for the purpose of aiding in carrying out the objects of an expedition of which the War Department has charge.
The primary object of the expedition is to provision Fort Sumter, for which purpose the War Department will furnish the necessary transports. Should the authorities at Charleston permit the fort to be supplied, no further particular service will be required of the force under your command, and after being satisfied that supplies have been received at the fort the Powhatan, Pocahontas, and Harriet Lane will return to New York and the Pawnee to Washington.
Should the authorities at Charleston, however, refuse to permit or attempt to prevent the vessel or vessels having supplies on board from entering the harbor or from peaceably proceeding to Fort Sumter, you will protect the transports or boats of the expedition in the object of their mission, disposing of your force in such manner as to open the way for their ingress, and afford, so far as practicable, security to the men and boats, and repelling by force, if necessary, all obstructions toward provisioning the fort and reenforcing it; for in case of resistance to the peaceable primary object of the expedition a reenforcement of the garrison will also be attempted.
These purposes will be under the supervision of the War Department, which has charge of the expedition. The expedition has been intrusted to Captain G. V. Fox, with whom you will put yourself in communication, and cooperate with him to accomplish and carry into effect its object.
You will leave New York with the Powhatan in time to be off Charleston bar, 10 miles distant from and due east of the light-house, on the morning of the 11th instant, there to await the arrival of the transport or transports with troops and stores. The Pawnee and Pocahontas will be ordered to join you there at the time mentioned, and also the Harriet Lane, which latter vessel has been placed under the control of this Department for this service. On the termination of the expedition, whether it be peaceable or otherwise, the several vessels under your command will return to the respective ports, as above directed, unless some unforeseen circumstances should prevent.
I am, respectfully, your obedient servant,
GIDEON WELLES,
Secretary Navy.Captain SAMUEL MERCER,
Commanding U. S. S. Powhatan, New York.
April 6, 1861 — Lt. Porter took the Powhatan and sailed, pursuant to secret orders of Seward/Lincoln. Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles found out and had a fit. The Powhatan was the flagship for the Navy operation going to Fort Sumter. Seward/Lincoln took the flagship, and the troops intended to reinforce Fort Sumter, and sent them off on an Atlantic cruise, eventually showing up near Pensacola, Florida.
In response to the Secretary of the Navy's fit, the administration had Seward send a meaningless telegram to Lt. Porter aboard the flagship (for the U.S. Navy mission to Fort Sumter) Powhatan. A telegram from the Secretary of State lacks authority to countermand a direct order of the President.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 112:
Give the Powhatan up to Captain Mercer. Seward.
A dispatch boat caught up with Powhatan and delivered Seward's message.
Lt. Porter responded to Seward:
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 112:
I received my orders from the President, and shall proceed and execute them.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 112:
Before leaving, Lt. Porter instructed the Navy Yard officials,
Detain all letters for five days.
Storms and boiler problems allegedly delayed Powhatan, but she arrived disguised and flying English colors. When the Powhatan, sort of detached from the Navy and under the State Department, arrived off Florida, it was stopped dead in its tracks by the U.S. Navy which stood in her way and refused to permit her to proceed.
Lt. Porter filed this report, April 21, 1861:
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 122:
Report of Lieutenant Porter, U. S. Navy, commanding U. S. S. Powhatan, of the arrival of that vessel off Pensacola, and giving reasons for not having entered that harbor.U.S.S. Powhatan, Off Pensacola Bar, April 21, 1861.
Sir: I enclose a correspondence which will explain why I am not inside of the harbor. Will you please to lay it before the President? I arrived here a few hours behind the Atlantic, my passage having been retarded by heavy gales, head winds, and defective boilers. I had disguised the ship so that she deceived those who had known her, and after nearing our squadron was standing in (unnoticed) when the steam gunboat Wyandotte, lying alongside the Atlantic, commenced making signals to me, which I did not answer, but stood on. The steamer then put herself in my way, and Captain Meigs, who was on board, hailed me and I stopped. In twenty minutes more I should have been inside or sunk. Captain Meigs delivered me Colonel Browns letter dated April 17, 1861, which will explain why I was not permitted to proceed. ...
Official Records, Army, Series 1, Vol 1, Chap 4, page 368-70:
APRIL 3, 1861.Honorable WM. H. SEWARD, Secretary of State:
DEAR SIR: We expect to touch at Key West, and will be able to set things in order there and give the first check to the secession movement by firmly establishing the authority of the United States in that most ungrateful island and city. Thence we propose to send dispatches under cover to you. The officers will write to their friends, understanding that the package will not be broken until after the public has notice through the newspapers of our success or defeat. Our object is yet unknown on board, and if I read the papers of the eve of our departure aright our secret is still a secret in New York. No communication with the shore, however, will be allowed.
* * *
The dispatch and the secrecy with which this expedition has been fitted out will strike terror into the ranks of rebellion. All New York saw, all the United States knew, that the Atlantic was filling with stores and troops. But now this nameless vessel, her name is painted out, speeds out of the track of commerce to an unknown destination. Mysterious, unseen, where will the powerful bolt fall? What thousands of men, spending the means of the Confederate States, vainly beat the air amid the swamps of the southern coast, and, filling the dank forts, curse secession and the mosquitoes!
* * *
God promised to send before his chosen people an advance-guard of hornets. Our constant allies are the more efficient mosquitoes and sand-flies. At this time the republic has need of all her sons, of all their knowledge, zeal, and courage.
Major Hunt is with us, somewhat depressed at going into the field without his horses. His battery of Napoleon guns, probably the best field guns in our service, is to follow in the Illinois; but the traitor Twiggs surrendered his horses to the rebels of Texas, and the company of well-trained artillerists finds itself, after eight years of practice in that highest and most efficient arm, the light artillery, going into active service as footmen. They, too, feel, the change deeply.
* * *
I am, most respectfully, your obedient servant,
M. C. MEIGS,
Captain of Engineers.
Official Records, Army, Series 1, Vol. 1, page 368:
U. S. TRANSPORT ATLANTIC,
[New York,] April 6, 1861 -- 2½ p. m.Hon. WM. H. SEWARD, Secretary of State:
DEAR SIR: By great exertions, within less than six days from the time the subject was broached in the office of the President, a war steamer sails from this port; and the Atlantic, built under contract to be at the service of the United States in case of war, will follow this afternoon with 500 troops, of which one company is sappers and miners, one a mounted battery. The Illinois will follow on Monday with the stores which the Atlantic could not hold.
While the mere throwing of a few men into Fort Pickens may seem a small operation, the opening of a campaign is a great one.
Unless this movement is supported by ample supplies and followed up by the Navy it will be a failure. This is the beginning of the war which every statesman and soldier has foreseen since the passage of the South Carolina ordinance of secession. You will find the Army and the Navy clogged at the head with men, excellent patriotic men, men who were soldiers and sailors forty years ago, but who now merely keep active men out of the places in which they could serve the country.
If you call out volunteers you have no general to command. The general born, not made, is yet to be found who is to govern the great army which is to save the country, if saved it can be. Colonel Keyes has shown intelligence, zeal, activity, and I look for a high future for him.
England took six months to get a soldier to the Crimea. We were from May to September in getting General Taylor before Monterey. Let us be supported; we go to serve our country, and our country should not neglect us or leave us to be strangled in tape, however red.
Respectfully,
M. C. MEIGS.
As noted above in the ship's log for the USS Supply, Union forces started landing near Fort Pickens during the night of April 11, 1861 before shots were fired at Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861.
Official Records, Army, Series 1, Vol. 1, page 191:
CHAP. I.] CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.—UNIONNo. 64. FORT SUMTER, March 6, 1861.
(Received A. G. O., March 9.)
Col. S. COOPER, Adjutant-General U. S. Army:
COLONEL: I have the honor to report that a very large re-enforcement was landed last night at Cummings Point and bivouacs near No. 10. This morning it was marched out of sight, around the point of the island. Yesterday the three other guns were mounted in No. 10, thus completing its armament of four heavy pieces. They continued working yesterday at the places mentioned in my report, and are still so occupied today. A party has also been at work this morning on the Fort Moultrie glacis. Everything indicates activity and determination.
I had the honor to present in No. 58* my opinion of the strength of the army which will be necessary to force an entrance into the harbor. The presence here, as commander, of General Beauregard, recently of the U. S. Engineers, insures, I think, in a great measure the exercise of skill and sound judgment in all operations of the South Carolinians in this harbor. God grant that our country may be saved from the horrors of a fratricidal war!
I am, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
ROBERT ANDERSON,
Major, First Artillery, Commanding.* No. 58, and several other of Anderson’s letters, not found.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 90:
Order from Lieutenant-General Scott, U. S. Army, to Captain Vodges,
U. S. Army, to reenforce Fort Pickens.HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY,
Washington, March 12, 1861.SIR: At the first favorable moment you will land with your company, reenforce Fort Pickens, and hold the same till further orders.
Report frequently, if opportunities present themselves, on the condition of the fort and the circumstances around you.
I write by command of Lieutenant-General Scott.
I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
E.B. TOWNSEND,
Assistant Adjutant-General.Captain I. VOGDES,
First Artillery, U. S. A., on board Sloop of War Brooklyn,
Off Fort Pickens, Pensacola, Fla.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 107-8:
Order of General Scott, U. S. Army, to Colonel Brown, U. S. Army, appointed to command Department of Florida, regarding reenforcement of Fort Pickens.HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY
Washington, April 1, 1861.
SIR: You have been designated to take command of an expedition to reenforce and hold Fort Pickens, in the harbor of Pensacola. You will proceed with the least possible delay to that place, and you will assume command of all the land forces of the United States within the limits of the State of Florida. You will proceed to New York, where steam transportation for four companies will be engaged, and, putting on board such supplies as you can ship, without delay proceed at once to your destination. The engineer company of sappers and miners; Brevet Major Hunt’s Company M, Second Artillery; Captain Johns’s Company C, Third Infantry; Captain Clitz’s Company E, Third Infantry, will embark with you in the first steamer. Other troops and full supplies will be sent after you as soon as possible.
Captain Meigs will accompany you as engineer, and will remain with you until you are established in Fort Pickens, when he will return to resume his duties in this city. The other members of your staff will be Assistant Surgeon John Campbell, medical staff; Captain Rufus Ingalls, assistant quartermaster; Captain Henry F. Clarke, assistant commissary of subsistence; Brevet Captain George L. Hartsuff, assistant adjutant-general, and First Lieutenant George T. Balch, ordnance officer.
The object and destination of this expedition will be communicated to no one to whom it is not already known. The naval officers in the Gulf will be instructed to cooperate with you, and to afford every facility in their power for the accomplishment of the object of the expedition, which is the security of Fort Pickens against all attacks, foreign and domestic. Should a shot be fired at you, you will defend yourself and your expedition at whatever hazard, and, if needful for such defense, inflict upon the assailants all the damage in your power within the range of your guns.
Lieutenant-Colonel Keyes, military secretary, will be authorized to give all necessary orders and to call upon the staff department for every requisite material and transportation, and other steamers will follow that on which you embark, to carry reenforcements, supplies, and provisions for the garrison of Fort Pickens for six months. Captain Barry’s battery will follow as soon as a vessel can be fitted for its transportation. Two or three foot companies will embark at the same time with the battery. All the companies will be filled up to the maximum standard, those to embark first from the recruits in the harbor of New York. The other companies will be filled, if practicable, with instructed soldiers. You will make Fort Jefferson your main depot and base of operations. You will be careful not to reduce too much the means of the fortresses in the Florida Reef, as they are deemed of greater importance than even Fort Pickens. The naval officers in the Gulf will be instructed to cooperate with you in every way in order to insure the safety of Fort Pickens, Fort Jeff and Fort Taylor. You will fully communicate with them for this end, and will exhibit to them the authority of the President herewith.
The President directs that you be assigned to duty from this date according to your brevet rank in the Army.
With great confidence in your judgment zeal,and intelligence, I remain, respectfully,
WINFIELD SCOTT.
Brevet Colonel HARVEY BROWN, U. S. Army,
Washington, D. C.APRIL 2, 1861.
Approved:
ABRAHAM LINCOLN.[Enclosure.]
EXECUTIVE MANSION, Washington, April 1, 1861. All officers of the Army and Navy to whom this order may be exhibited will aid by every means in their power the expedition under the command of Colonel Harvey Brown, supplying him with men and material, and cooperating with him as he may desire.
ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Vol. 4, page 109-110
Report of Captain Adams, U. S. Navy, senior officer present off Pensacola, transmitting communication from Captain Vogdes, U. S. Army, regarding coopperation for the protection of Fort Pickens.U.S. FRIGATE SABINE,
Off Pensacola, April 1, 1861.SIR: I have the honor to inclose a copy of a letter addressed to me by Captain Vogdes, U. S. Army, who is here in command of some troops sent out in January last to reenforce the garrison of Fort Pickens. I have declined to land the men as Captain Vogdes requests, as it would be in direct violation of the orders* from the Navy Department under which I am acting.
The instructions from General Scott to Captain Vogdes are of old date (March 12) and may have been given without a full knowledge of the condition of affairs here. They would be no justification to me. Such a step is too important to be taken without the clearest orders from proper authority. It would most certainly be viewed as a hostile act, and would be resisted to the utmost. No one acquainted with the feelings of the military assembled under General Bragg can doubt that it would be considered not only a declaration but an act of war. It would be a serious thing to bring on by any precipitation a collision which may be entirely against the wishes of the Administration. At present both sides are faithfully observing the agreement entered into by the U. S. Government with Mr. Mallory and Colonel Chase. This agreement binds us not to reenforce Fort Pickens unless it shall be attacked or threatened. It binds them not to attack it unless we should attempt to reenforce it. I saw General Bragg on the 30th ultimo, who reassured me the conditions on their part should not be violated. While I can not take on myself under such insufficient authority as General Scott’s order the fearful responsibility of an act which seems to render civil war inevitable, I am ready at all times to carry out whatever orders I may receive from the honorable Secretary of the Navy.
In conclusion, I beg you will please send me instructions as soon as possible, that I may be relieved from a painful embarrassment.
Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
H.A. ADAMS,
Captain, Senior Officer Present.Hon. GIDEON WELLES,
Secretary of the Navy, Washington, JJ. C.[Enclosure.]
U. S. FRIGATE SABINE,
Off Pensacola, Fla., April 1, 1861.SIR: Herewith I send you a copy of an order* received by me last night. You will see by it that I am directed to land my command at the earliest opportunity. I have therefore to request that you will place at my disposal such boats and other means as will enable me to carry into effect the enclosed order.
Yours, etc., I. VOGDES
Captain, First Artillery, Commanding.Captain H. A. ADAMS,
Commanding Naval Forces off Pensacola.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Volume 4, page 117
Letter from Captain Vogdes, U. S. Army, commanding Fort Pickens, Fla., to Captain Adams, U. S. Navy, senior officer present off Pensacola, regarding violation of armistice.FORT PICKENS, FLA., April 14, 1861.
DEAR CAPTAIN: General Bragg has just sent me a verbal message by his adjutant-general, Colonel Wood, requesting to know why the armistice had been violated by reenforcing Fort Pickens. In reply I stated that I never had been a party to any armistice, but that in landing from the Brooklyn and taking the command of Fort Pickens I had acted under orders from the General Government. He then stated that he was directed by General Bragg to demand from the late commander, addressing himself to Lieutenant Slemmer, why it had been violated on his part. He answered that he obeyed the orders of his Government. No further official communication passed between us.
Your obedient servant,
I. VOGDES,
Captain, First Artillery, Commanding Fort Pickens.Captain H. A. ADAMS,
Commanding Naval Forces off Pensacola.
Official Records, Navy, Series 1, Volume 4, page 117
Letter from Brigadier-General Bragg, C. S. Army, commanding Confederate troops near Pensacola, to Captain Adams, U. S. Navy, senior officer present off Pensacola, regarding violation of armistice.HEADQUARTERS TROOPS CONFEDERATE STATES,
Near Pensacola, Fla., April 14, 1861.SIR: Your communication of the 13th instant, announcing the re-enforcement of Fort Pickens, was received by me this evening. How you could suppose I was aware of that fact, and that it was done by “order of the U. S. Government,” I do not understand, when it was accomplished under cover of the darkness of night and in violation of a solemn compact. I only wish I could construe the orders of your Government as a justification of the act.
I am, sir, your obedient servant,
BRAXTON BRAGG,
Brigadier-General Commanding.Captain H. A. ADAMS,
Senior U. S. Naval Officer off Pensacola.
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I would take a Secessionist over a Commie Socialist any day.
Yep. That *itch will never get my vote. Once one buckles, ALL the RINOs collapse
“They are shitting the bed,” said a top Washington space lobbyist who works for SpaceX’s competitors and asked for anonymity to avoid upsetting his clients.
Some of you may think this is unrelated to the civil war, but I have come to realize this sort of thing is exactly related to the civil war.
Connected corporations see a dangerous economic situation for themselves, and they will then attempt to use the power of government to attack the people from whom the economic threat emerges.
If you haven't kept up with it, ever since retarded corrupt fake president got into power, the FAA and the FCC and the EPA and a lot of other Federal agencies have been f***ing with SpaceX. SpaceX has even started looking at doing their launches in the Gulf of Mexico (from oil platforms) to get away from the Federal interference.
Once you start to notice the pattern of connected corporations siccing the government on their economic rivals, you start seeing it in a lot of other places. The Vaccines for example.
The Civil War was initiated because of the dire economic threat the South posed to the monied interests of the Northeast who basically controlled the government in Washington DC through the back door of influence.
They had used that power to pump Southern money into their own economies through the manipulation of laws.
SLS has a much larger payload than Musk’s Starship, which makes it ideal for a certain limited set of missions. Space-X’s Starship and other launchers though are far more economical, which makes them like those budget airlines in the 1980s that drove many expensive legacy carriers into downsizing and bankruptcy. The sad thing is that like the old prestige airlines, Lockheed and other major NASA launch contractors could have done what Musk has done. Their eager young engineers though were consistently rebuffed because management did not want to endanger the lush profit margins they enjoyed with NASA.
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