Posted on 01/07/2022 3:25:32 AM PST by marktwain
“Why not carry both? Plus a Buck knife.”
Katana is probably too heavy to lug around.
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lol
This is inexcusable. If a human can smell the dead elk, every bear within miles could, too. When approaching it, you have to assume that the biggest, baddest boar grizzly in the area has staked a claim. In grizzly country, you'd want to approach that carcass with rifles at the ready until you're sure that it hasn't been claimed by some grumpy bear. The rifles they were using for elk hunting might not be the ideal weapon but a better choice than relying on pistols.
Heavy caliber pistols are great in bear country because of their availability and effectiveness but overall, they just aren't a good substitute for a long gun if you know that an encounter is likely.
In this case, the pistols proved effective but just. How often can two pistol shooters get off 31 shots in self-defense situations?
I'm surprised that the Buffalo Bore 10mm didn't perform better. Apparently, the first shot that was just above the skull had no effect on the bear. I would suspect that a rifle shot from a caliber sufficient for elk (or a guide gun in 45/70 or similar or a shotgun with slugs or buckshot) would have knocked the bear down, stunned it, or hit it hard enough that it might have decided that continuing this is a bad idea. I'm surprised that the 10mm couldn't penetrate through the bear's skull from 10' in two shots. From 10' with a shotgun (slugs or buckshot) or a 45/70 (particularly if loaded with +P bear loads) and there would have not been a second shot to the skull because there would have been no skull left.
Or a shotgun with slugs or buckshot. Obviously, not as quick to refire as a semi-auto pistol, a lever-action carbine or pump shotgun can refire quickly. But with the advantage of each shot having 4-5x the energy and because of the longer barrel, more likely to be accurate.
That is a beautiful firearm and I have heard many things about how accurate they are. Mine is just the little 3.5 inch barrel so I don’t have that kind of accuracy but I will say that a paper target will not hold up to many shots at twenty-five yards. It just blows the whole middle out after a few rounds. It also blows everyone else’s targets around from the shock wave. The five yard rolling ring of fire is kind of fun too. One thing is for certain though. Everyone in the range stops shooting when you fire that bad boy! My wrist hurt for a week after running about forty 200 grain rounds through it and another ten 300 grain ones though. There is not an animal in the Americas that could stand up to a .460. I only have black bears around here but I sure don’t have to worry that I have enough firepower.
“Or a shotgun with slugs or buckshot.”
I’d probably go with a short barreled auto loading shotgun with some 300 grain Hornady or Federal Sabot Slugs. 5 of those would end an encounter with a charging bear pretty quick assuming good shot placement of course.
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I don’t think the long barrel ones make the fire rings but here is a video with one of the 3 1/2 inch ones. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/07/ring-fire-smith-wesson-460-magnum/
Many grizzly attacks have been ended with 9mm, unexpectedly. I was quite surprised to learn of this.
Seems to be the quantity of rounds pumped into the animal. As more arteries are opened, the blood exponentially drains from what was previously a closed system.
The Glock 40 in 10mm holds fifteen. A very good choice for sudden attacks where there’s only a few feet between you and the bear.
Having shot bears with rifle, shotguns, slugs and buckshot and handguns.
If one is using a shotgun at the ranges self-defense is reasonable. One has to aim a shotgun just as a rifle.
Just a well carry a rifle with a proper bullet. Buck shot has a penetration problem. Some slugs also.
For me a rifle that doesn’t weigh more then the same shotgun one would carry I’ll take the rifle in proper caliber and bullet instead.
Why carry a pistol instead of a rifle. When one needs both hands to accomplish the task at hand.
A pistol doesn’t get in the way like a rifle when doing work.
A pistol doesn’t get left behind leaning on a tree laying on the ground.
As proven many times a good quality handgun in appropriate caliber with proper bullets is very effect against bears.
Yes I have shot and killed bears with rifles, shotguns and handguns.
When it comes to the super magnum calibers.
460’s 500’s I would even include the 458 Casull.
I prefer longer barrels 5 inches or more.
Yes I have shot them all the above calibers in various barrel lengths short to long
I prefer my 10 inch 460S@W for hunting and smaller 44, 41mag and others for self-defense.
The largest Mt lions are in the 200lb range.
African lions can exceed 500lbs.
Critters attacking you tend to look larger at that time.
I'd prefer a pump. I've heard that autoloading shotguns can have issues cycling with slugs and buckshot. That would be a crappy time to have your shotgun act up. Maybe an old wives' tale but why take the chance when a pump shotgun is damn quick.
In the situation these guys faced, I doubt someone with a shotgun so loaded would need more that a shot or two. At 15 yards and shotgun's long barrel, you'll have a lot more accuracy than with a pistol plus a 12 gauge shotgun with greater power than a 10mm will have more margin for error. The bear was apparently unfazed by the 10mm shot that went through the fleshly area above its skull. A 12 gauge slug in the same place would have likely been the grizzly-bear equivalent of taking a full-power Mike Tyson or George Foreman punch. Not likely to be unfazed and before it can regain its senses, a second slug could be on the way.
Probably not, unless it hit the skull.
If any of the bullets had hit the skull, it would likely have slowed the bear.
Too bad a full necropsy was not done. It would have been very interesting.
Thanks. I’m always grateful for information from someone who has been there and done that.
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“ I’ve heard that autoloading shotguns can have issues cycling with slugs and buckshot.”
Before I trust any cartridge in any of my auto loading firearms I put at least 100 through it to make sure that load functions in that gun. Yes, it’s expensive. Yes it takes time.
I’m worth both.
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I have seen a 386lb black take a 220grsp out of an 06 at 20 feet.
To the head because of the angle it did not go into the brain.
The bear ran another two hundred yards before it was caught and bayed by the hounds. It then took another 220grsp to the neck that missed the spine.
At that shot it dropped jumped right back up. The hounds caught it again in about 50 yards in a ash swamp in knee deep water.
Visibility was around 30 feet as I closed in on the fight within 10 feet.
The hounds moved away from the bear. The bear turned his attention to me. As the bear an I closed in on each other.
I drove a .430 315gr hard cast WFN at 1300 fps from my 5.5 inch 44mag. into the scull at the base of the nose. Down through scull into neck to be lost some wear in the body.
The bear dropped and that shot. I fell into the water towards the bear landing less then 5 feet from it. Some quick back peddling was done. But the bear was DRT dead right there.
Having shot hundreds of heads of big strange things can happen once you pull the trigger.
Thus two shots that should have been fatal out of a more then adequate rifle bullet combination resulted in a wounded bear.
Being finished off with a handgun.
Why wasn’t I carrying a rifle.
Have you ever tried handling 4 or 5 large hounds with a rifle in your hands.
Should be
hundreds of head of big game.
I generally agree with you. I originally set out to buy a 7 to 10 inch 44 mag but then something happened and I decided, what the heck, might as well take it a step farther. The thing is, an X frame gun is so hefty already and I really just wanted the gun for protection, I didn’t want to add any more to it. It would just be too hard to holster, etc., since you pretty much need a chest holster for one of the bigger ones. The 3 1/2 is really just right for my purposes. While I may not quite be able to carry it in an ankle holster, I can still wear it on my waist and stop a charging rhino at thirty yards. What more could I want? I’ll take a rifle to go hunting. I may have to save up for a 10 inch or 13 inch 460 too though. I hear that they sure do shoot nice.
No doubt but you have to go with the odds. In terms of penetration and lethality, assuming reasonable calibers, a rifle is almost always superior to a pistol.
I drove a .430 315gr hard cast WFN at 1300 fps from my 5.5 inch 44mag. into the scull at the base of the nose. Down through scull into neck to be lost some wear in the body.
Even with the soft-points, would you have expected any different results on that shot using the '06? A point-blank shot into a bear skull right at the base of the nose with a 220 grain '06 is going to pulverize that skull, soft points or not. I would expect no different outcome on the neck shot if the .44 mag had been used except it might not have dropped the bear given significantly less foot-pounds of energy being delivered. The larger, slower hard cast bullet in the .44 mag likely would have been less effected by the angle in the first head shot you described and probably would have dropped the bear right there.
Why wasn’t I carrying a rifle. Have you ever tried handling 4 or 5 large hounds with a rifle in your hands.
I can see the advantage to the pistol in a situation where you are doing this solo. However, if you were running the hounds and had someone else with a firearm, would prefer he had a pistol or a rifle?
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