Why I’m finally a young earth creationist

Questions:

1. How many coins were struck during the lifetime of Julius Caesar, bearing his name and likeness?
***Quite a few. How many people died a century after his death claiming he was GOD HIMSELF? I’d say... close to zero.

How many statues of him were erected during his lifetime?
***Far fewer than are built for Christ and those who followed Him. Any statue that was built for Saint so&so brings up that existential question of “who was it that this guy was a follower of?” and the existential answer is obvious: Jesus of Nazareth.

After all: Historians consider coins and statues to be “urkundliche Erwähnungen” just like public monuments or written records.
***There are far more written records about Jesus than Julius Caesar. And public monuments. And billions of people willing to die for Him even today.
——I know men; and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between Him and every person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for him.——~Napoleon Bonaparte

They might even be accorded more believability than testimonials by ardent admirers their camp-followers trying desperately to disseminate a new religions.
***Even the enemies of Jesus acknowledged His existence and that He died claiming to be equal with God Himself.

2. Were those “17,000 extant manuscripts” written during the Life of Christ - or after? (This is NOT a trivial question.)
***There are several which date to within a couple of generations of Jesus walking around, but the extant manuscripts of Julius Caesar have several hundred years by which errors have crept in. Yes it IS a trivial question, that is... for historians. But it becomes improperly elevated as somehow significant to antichristian bigots with an axe to grind.

3. Were those “17,000 extant manuscripts” written by unbiased observers with no “skin in the game?”
***Some evidence was, yes. And in particular the enemies of Jesus agreed with the salient historical facts that the admirers talk about, minus several miracles of course. But Jesus even did miracles in the presence of His enemies.

Or by crazed fanatics?
***Historians don’t use such twisted terms. You’re no historian, you’re an antichristian bigot — a “crazed fanatic” of atheism or whatever it is you’re pushing.

People whose whole psychological make-up / whose whole identity had become dependent upon a certain belief-system?
***This is just you throwing more gas on the fire of your own crazed fanaticism.

In contrast, the evidence we have that Julius Caesar exists was produced / left behind by people who were, by and large, disinterested parties.
***There’s plenty of evidence of Christ left behind by disinterested parties and even His enemies. There was also a lot of evidence left behind by the friends of Caesar unto Caesar and the friends of Christ unto Christ.

Here’s a place to start looking at the evidence.

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3104583/posts?page=1#1

*********************** My article from several years ago ************************

Date: 24-OCT-1994 14:28:12.94 From: “Kevin O’Malley” Reply-To: k3oma...@sisko.sbcc.cc.ca.us () Subj: RE: Evidence that Jesus Claimed to be God Part 1

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2056400/posts

Evidence that Jesus claimed to be God. *************************************

Three books I would recommend and which I will be quoting/borrowing from:

More than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell Abbrev: MTAC Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell Abbrev: ETDAV Jesus: God, Ghost or Guru? by Jon Buell & O.Q. Hyder Abbrev: JGGG

His actions:

———————————————————————————————————————— He forgave sin that had been committed against others. In Mark 2 a paralytic was lowered through a hole in the roof and Jesus said, “My son, your sins are forgiven.” The response of the scribes who were present was “He is blaspheming. Who can forgive sins but God alone?”(Mark 2:7) According to JGGG, “...there isn’t a single verse in the Old Testament (or other Jewish literature) that clearly designates for the Messiah the power to forgive sins, although the same literature does ascribe this power to Jehovah!” (JGGG 23)

He accepted worship.

Matthew 21:16. Jesus’ answer to the chief priests and scribes was to quote Psalm 8:2 “out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes Thou hastprepared praise for Thyself”

When Thomas felt his wounds after the resurrection, he cried out “Behold my Lord and my God!” (John 20:26-29) Jesus commented on Thomas’s unbelief rather than any misplaced worship — very significant for average 1st century monotheistic jews.

According to JGGG, other examples include Peter’s acclaim (Matt 16:16) accepting the title Son of the living God, and the worship of the disciples afloat on the Sea of Galilee (Matt 14:33) and again just prior to being commissioned in Matt28. According to MTAC Jesus demanded to be worshipped as God in John 5:23, “compare Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:8-14”.

Jesus’Words

———————————————————————————————————————— His use of the hebrew phrase “ani hu” which gets translated into greek variously as “I am He” or “I am”. The roots of the phrase, according to JGGG and Ethelbert Stauffer in “Jesus and His Story” are from various Old Testament scriputes such as Psalm 50:7 + 113-118, Isaiah 43, Deut 32 + 39 , 26:8, 5:16, etc. Ani is a self - disclosure term used by Jehovah. Hu is the emphatic form of the personal pronoun “huah”, which means “he”, and often used in the 1st century as a substitute for Yahweh. In Mark 13:6 Jesus warns that counterfeits saying “Ani Hu” would arise impersonating HIM. In John 13 Jesus says, “From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am He (Ani Hu).” Finally, in front of the highest court in his land, Jesus responds to the question of whether he is the Messiah by saying, “Ani Hu” (Mark 16:61-62). Furthermore, Jesus follows up this claim by saying, “And you shall see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power coming on the clouds of Heaven.” Here Jesus quotes Daniel 7 and Psalm110:1. Jehovah is the only One in the Old Testament who comes on the clouds of Heaven, and being seated at the right hand of someone is an expression meaning to have equivalent status as that person. It’s important to note that Jesus was sentenced to death for who he claimed to be. John 10:30 Jesus says “I and the Father are one.” The jews who heard this rightly heard a claim to deity and tried to stone Jesus.

John 8:58 Jesus says “Before Abraham was, I am”, again followed by an attempted stoning.

John 14:9 Jesus says to Philip “He that has seen me has seen the Father”

Jesus’ response to the scribes John in 5:16-18 when he said “My Father is working until now, and I Myself and working” when he was accused of breaking the sabbath. According to MTAC, the cultural context is important and he is effectively saying ‘God is MY Father’ and they sought to kill him. MTAC: “The reason is that Jesus said ‘my Father,’ not ‘our Father,’ and then added “is working until now.’ Jesus’ use of these two phrases made himself equal with God, on a par with God’s activity. The Jews did not refer to God as ‘my Father.’ Or if they did, they would qualify the statement with ‘in Heaven.’ However, Jesus did not do this. He made a claim that the Jews could not misinterpret when he called God ‘my Father.’”

The basic phrases where Jesus claims to be one in essence with God. John 12:45 — He who beholds me beholds the One who sent me; John 8:19 — If you knew me, you would know my Father also; John 5:23 — He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him;

Opposing Sources

———————————————————————————————————————— Per Stauffer: “For if a confrontation of witnesses yields statements that agree on some points, then these points must represent facts accepted by both sides. This principle certainly holds true if the historical traditions of the two groups of witnesses are independent of each other. But it holds true almost as completely in cases where the traditions intersect. For it is highly significant that the witness for the prosecution admits that the witness for the defense is right on certain points; that he agrees with his opponents about certain common facts.”

Justin Martyr and Eusebius mention a circular letter issued by the Sanhedrin. Martyr Quotes from it: “...a certain Jesus of Galilee, an apostate preacher whom we crucified; but his disciples stole him by night from the cross; they did this in order to persuade men to apostasy by saying that he had awakened from the dead and ascended into heaven.” Per JGGG jewish tradition for at least a century afterwards independently continued to reject Jesus on the basis of his claim to deity.

Lucian, Greek satirist in 2nd century commenting on Jesus. “...the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world.... Furthermore, their first lawgiver persuaded them that they were all brothers one of another after they have transgressed once for all by denying the Greek gods and by worshipping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws.” Per JGGG, “notice that Lucian specifically pins the blame for the worship of Jesus on ‘their first lawgiver himself.’

Pliny the Younger. (A.D. 61-112) Per JGGG After killing christians, he sought advice from Trajan, mentioning that christians “affirmed, however that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god...”

Jewish Polemic in commentary of Rabbi Eleazar Hakkapar (ca 170 a.d.) per JGGG. “God saw that a man, son of a woman, would come forth in the future who would endeavor to make himself God and to lead the whole world astray.... For it is said: ‘A man is not God.... And if he says he is God, he is a liar. And he will lead men astray and say that he is going and will come back again at the end of days.’ Is it not so that he spoke thus, but he will not be able to do it. “

Jewish Polemic : Per JGGG, Rabbi Abbahu of Caesarea (ca 270) puts the words of Jesus into Balaam’s mouth: “If a man says, ‘I am God,’ he is a liar, if he says I am the Son of Man,’ his end will be such that he will rue it; if he says, ‘I shall ascend to heaven,’ will it not be that he will have spoken and will not be able to perform it?’”

From JGGG: “The first independent test of the validity and integrity of of the reports that we have discussed is a telltale silence in all contemporary literature concerning the claim of Jesus’ deity. There is a complete ABSENCE OF REBUTTAL. Although much was said to deny his deity, nothing was said to deny that he claimed it. (In fact, the first real threat to the infant Christain church came from the Gnostics who wanted to deny his HUMANITY!) ....Paul, writing within thirty years of the events themselves, confidently challenged his readers to check with any eyewitnesses if they wanted to confirm the truthfulness of his message (1Cor. 15:5). THE FACT THAT JESUS CLAIMED DEITY IS WITHOUT A CHALLENGER IN THE FIRST-CENTURY HISTORICAL RECORDS.” (emphasis changed from italics to CAPITALS) This may be an argument from silence, but it is issued as a challenge.

Biblical evidence—Just a touch

Since most of the rest of the Bible was written before A.D. 90, there were many people who witnessed the events who could have stepped forward if the Gospels, Paul’s epistles, etc. were unfactual. (per JGGG with citation of demographic study)

Paul’s epistles include the following per JGGG: 1) that Jesus was the preexistent Creator of the universe (Col 1:15-16) 2) that Jesus existed both in the “form of man” and in the “form of God” (Phil.2:5,8) 3) that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead, and thereafter was seen by over five hundred eyewitnesses (most of whom were alive when Paul wrote) (1Cor 15:4,5) 4) that prayer could be directed either to God the Father or to Jesus (1Cor 1:2) 5) that one day Jesus would return to earth as the divine judge of humanity (2Thess. 1:7-10) “No first-century Jew — especially one steeped in Jewish orthodoxy as was Paul, trained by the great Rabbi Gamaliel, fiercely monotheistic, a member of the sect of the Pharisees, and possibly even a member of the Great Sanhedrin ... would teach these things about anyone but Jehovah Himself.”

Hebrews 1:8 “But unto the son He says,’Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.”

John

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” v.14: “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory...”

Mark The beginning of the gospel of Mark quotes Malachi 3:1 with a significant alteration: “Behold I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the before me.” Mark-—>”The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. As it is written in the prophets, “Behold I send my messenger before thy face...”

From ETDAV: Indirect claims of deity

———————————————————————————————————————— of Jehovah Mutual Title or Act Of Jesus

———————————————————————————————————————— Isa 40:28 Creator John 1:3 Isa 45:22,43:11 Savior John 4:42 1Sam 2:6 Raise Dead John 5:21 Joel 3:12 Judge JJohn 5:27 cf. cf Matt 25:31 ff

Isa 60:19-20 Light John 8:12 Exodus 3:14 I AM John 8:58, cf 18:5-6 ps.23:1 Shepherd John 10:11 Isa 42:8, cf48:11 Glory of God John 17:1,5 Isa 41:4,44:6 First and Last Rev1:17;2:8 Hosea 13:14 Redeemer Rev 5:9 Isa 62:5 Rev 21:2, + Hosea 2:16 Bridegroom cf: Matt 25:1 ff Ps. 18:2 Rock 1 Cor 10:4 Jer 31:34 Forgiver of Sins Mark 2:7, 10 Ps 148:2 Worshipped by Angels Heb 1:6 Thru out O.T. Addressed in Prayer Acts 7:59 Ps. 148:5 Creator of Angels Col 1:16 Isa 45:23 Confessed as Lord Phil 2:11

Kevin O’Malley k3oma...@sisko.sbcc.cc.ca.us

From: Kevin O’Malley k3oma...@sisko.sbcc.cc.ca.us 24-OCT-1994 14:28:12.94 Subj: RE: Evidence that Jesus Claimed to be God

Evidence that Jesus claimed to be God. Part II ************************** Continued from previous post ****************************

Opposing Sources Per Stauffer: “For if a confrontation of witnesses yields statements that agree on some points, then these points must represent facts accepted by both sides. This principle certainly holds true if the historical traditions of the two groups of witnesses are independent of each other. But it holds true almost as completely in cases where the traditions intersect. For it is highly significant that the witness for the prosecution admits that the witness for the defense is right on certain points; that he agrees with his opponents about certain common facts.”

Justin Martyr and Eusebius mention a circular letter issued by the Sanhedrin. Martyr Quotes from it: “...a certain Jesus of Galilee, an apostate preacher whom we crucified; but his disciples stole hime by night from the cross; they did this in order to persuade men to apostasy by saying that he had awakened from the dead and ascended into heaven.” Per JGGG jewish tradition for at least a century afterwards independently continued to reject Jesus on the basis of his claim to deity.

Lucian, Greek satirist in 2nd century commenting on Jesus. “...the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world.... Furthermore, their first lawgiver persuaded them that they were all brothers one of another after they have transgressed once for all by denying the Greek gods and by worshipping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws.” Per JGGG, “notice that Lucian specifically pins the blame for the worship of Jesus on ‘their first lawgiver himself.’

Pliny the Younger. (A.D. 61-112) Per JGGG After killing christians, he sought advice from Trajan, mentioning that christians “affirmed, however that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god...”

Jewish Polemic in commentary of Rabbi Eleazar Hakkapar (ca 170 a.d.) per JGGG. “God saw that a man, son of a woman, would come forth in the future who would endeavor to make himself God and to lead the whole world astray.... For it is said: ‘A man is not God.... And if he says he is God, he is a liar. And he will lead men astray and say that he is going and will come back again at the end of days.’ Is it not so that he spoke thus, but he will not be able to do it. “

Jewish Polemic : Per JGGG, Rabbi Abbahu of Caesarea (ca 270) puts the words of Jesus into Balaam’s mouth: “If a man says, ‘I am God,’ he is a liar, if he says I am the Son of Man,’ his end will be such that he will rue it; if he says, ‘I shall ascend to heaven,’ will it not be that he will have spoken and will not be able to perform it?’”

From JGGG: “The first independent test of the validity and integrity of of the reports that we have discussed is a telltale silence in all contemporary literature concerning the claim of Jesus’ deity. There is a complete ABSENCE OF REBUTTAL. Although much was said to deny his deity, nothing was said to deny that he claimed it. (In fact, the first real threat to the infant Christain church came from the Gnostics who wanted to deny his HUMANITY!) ....Paul, writing within thirty years of the events themselves, confidently challenged his readers to check with any eyewitnesses if they wanted to confirm the truthfulness of his message (1Cor. 15:5). THE FACT THAT JESUS CLAIMED DEITY IS WITHOUT A CHALLENGER IN THE FIRST-CENTURY HISTORICAL RECORDS.” (emphasis changed from italics to CAPITALS) This may be an argument from silence, but it is issued as a challenge.

Biblical evidence—Just a touch

Since most of the rest of the Bible was written before A.D. 90, there were many people who witnessed the events who could have stepped forward if the Gospels, Paul’s epistles, etc. were unfactual. (per JGGG with citation of demographic study)

Paul’s epistles include the following per JGGG: 1) that Jesus was the preexistent Creator of the universe (Col 1:15-16) 2) that Jesus existed both in the “form of man” and in the “form of God” (Phil.2:5,8) 3) that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead, and thereafter was seen by over five hundred eyewitnesses (most of whom were alive when Paul wrote) (1Cor 15:4,5) 4) that prayer could be directed either to God the Father or to Jesus (1Cor 1:2) 5) that one day Jesus would return to earth as the divine judge of humanity (2Thess. 1:7-10) “No first-century Jew — especially one steeped in Jewish orthodoxy as was Paul, trained by the great Rabbi Gamaliel, fiercely monotheistic, a member of the sect of the Pharisees, and possibly even a member of the Great Sanhedrin ... would teach these things about anyone but Jehovah Himself.”

Hebrews 1:8 “But unto the son He says,’Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.”

John

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” v.14: “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory...”

Mark The beginning of the gospel of Mark quotes Malachi 3:1 with a significant alteration: “Behold I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the before me.” Mark-—>”The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. As it is written in the prophets, “Behold I send my messenger before thy face...”

From ETDAV: Indirect claims of deity of Jehovah Mutual Title or Act Of Jesus Isa 40:28 Creator John 1:3 Isa 45:22,43:11 Savior John 4:42 1Sam 2:6 Raise Dead John 5:21 Joel 3:12 Judge JJohn 5:27 cf. cf Matt 25:31 ff

Isa 60:19-20 Light John 8:12 Exodus 3:14 I AM John 8:58, cf 18:5-6 ps.23:1 Shepherd John 10:11 Isa 42:8, cf48:11 Glory of God John 17:1,5 Isa 41:4,44:6 First and Last Rev1:17;2:8 Hosea 13:14 Redeemer Rev 5:9 Isa 62:5 Rev 21:2, + Hosea 2:16 Bridegroom cf: Matt 25:1 ff Ps. 18:2 Rock 1 Cor 10:4 Jer 31:34 Forgiver of Sins Mark 2:7, 10 Ps 148:2 Worshipped by Angels Heb 1:6 Thru out O.T. Addressed in Prayer Acts 7:59 Ps. 148:5 Creator of Angels Col 1:16 Isa 45:23 Confessed as Lord Phil 2:11

Kevin O’Malley k3oma...@sisko.sbcc.cc.ca.us

1 posted on 12/23/2013, 5:14:49 AM by Kevmo

4. See my tagline.
***I agree that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But the historicity of Christ is no extraordinary claim, it is an ordinary claim. Even His enemies acknowledge that He was put to death for blasphemy, for claiming to be God Himself. It doesn’t take a miracle to be put to death. NOT an extraordinary claim.

If someone wants to prove something that flies in the face of all commonsense,
***Jesus died on the cross. There’s tons of historical evidence for it. This does not fly in the face of all commonsense. In fact, it flies in the face of all common sense to deny the historicity of Jesus and Him dying on the cross, to the point that even Wikipedia calls it a fringe theory.

accepted wisdom,
***Accepted wisdom? From antichristian bigots filled with hatred like you? Billions of us don’t need that kind of “wisdom”.

plausibility,
***What is so implausible about Jesus dying on the cross for blasphemy? You won’t answer this. Because you’re pushing an antichristian bigoted agenda and I’m not gonna put up with it.

everyday experience,
***Everyday experience tells billions of us that there was a historical guy named Jesus who taught in Israel a couple thousand years ago and was put to death for claiming equality with God Himself.

medical knowledge,
***There’s plenty of medical knowledge supporting the historicity of Christ.

and scientific understanding
***It doesn’t take a ton of scientific understanding to know that Jesus was a historical person. There’s loads of evidence. In fact, it takes a ton of wilfullness to NOT look at the historical and scientific evidence for the existence of Jesus and him dying on the cross.

(as been proven experimentally in the lab a thousand thousand times over),
***It has been proven in the lab a thousand times over that Jesus didn’t die on the cross? That’s news to me and would be news to a couple of billion people. You better hop right onto that one.

then the evidence he presents must be of a quality and quantity surpassing mere “word of mouth,” “hearsay,” and “but your elders said.”
***Historians REGULARLY rely on that level of evidence for historical figures with far less evidence for their existence. The fact you would say such things shows your antichristian agenda, that you’ve got a different historical standard for christianity than anything else, that you’re moving the goalposts like a standard antichristian bigot. Will Durant, the eminent historian, has a good quote about your approach: “In the enthusiasm of its discoveries the Higher Criticism has applied to the New Testament tests of authenticity so severe that by them a hundred ancient worthies-e.g., Hammurabi, David. Socrates-would fade into legend. Despite the prejudices and theological preconceptions of the evangelist, they recorded many incidents that mere inventors would have concealed- the competition of the apostles for high places in the Kingdom, their flight after Jesus’ arrest, Peter’s denial, the failure of Christ to work miracles in Galilee, the reference of some auditors to his possible insanity, his early uncertainty as to his mission, his confession of ignorance as to the future, his moments of bitterness, his despairing cry on the cross; no one reading these scenes can doubt the reality of the figure behind them. That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels. After two centuries of Higher Criticism the outline of the life, character, and teaching of Christ remain reasonable clear, and constitute the most fascinating feature in the history of Western man.”

I would demand that it be at least of forensic-level quality.
***Of course you would demand such a thing because you’re taking a HumptyDumpty approach towards history. And it’s not even towards the rest of history, it is ONLY towards the history of Jesus of Nazareth. You’re simply acting as an antichristian bigot.

Kevmo: Historians acknowledge the existence of Jesus. They don’t have a problem with it.

AB: Too-broad an assertion!
***No, not too broad. “Some writers may toy with the fancy of a âChrist-myth,’ but they do not do so on the ground of historical evidence. The historicity of Christ is as axiomatic for an unbiased historian as the historicity of Julius Caesar. It is not historians who propagate the âChrist-myth’ theories.” - F. F. Bruce

Some historians might acknowledge that.
***The vast majority of historians acknowledge the historicity of Jesus.

But some don’t.
***Very, very, very few. That’s why Wikipedia calls your pet theory a “fringe theory”. It is based on wishful, biased unhistorical thinking.

I suspect
***You need to read more. If you only ‘suspect’ it at this point, you are woefully under-informed. A good place to start is right here on FR:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2056400/posts

that the majority might concede that, somewhere in Palestine in the beginning of the First Century (C.E.), various things were done and said by person or persons going by the name of “Jesus”
***You’re just twisting all kinds of stuff, some extremely solid history. And it’s all because you are an antichristian bigot.

or variants thereof (there was no scarcity of itinerant “miracle-workers” back then in that part of the world).
***Now THERE is something worth lookiing at in terms of historicity. But I doubt I would have the patience to deal with you on such a topic.

That, in subsequent years, the stories surrounding that person / those persons gradually congealed and coalesced and stabilized.
***This is the standard “textual criticism” bowlsheet. It’s been soundly defeated in the realms of acedemia because there was so little time between the extant manuscripts and fragments that such a complicated mythology could creep in.

Portions thereof that didn’t “jibe” with the streamlined narrative that was evolving were casually discarded,
***Nonsense. You’re just not aware of the evidence in these cases. Lurkers can pursue this line of inquiry in such books as “Skeptics Answered” by D James Kennedy

Skeptics Answered
D. James Kennedy
0 / 0 0 comments
In this book, D. James Kennedy takes on some of the most-asked questions regarding the validity of the Christian faith and provides factual, well-reasoned answers. In clear, unassuming language, Dr. Kennedy examines the reliability of the Bible, the nature of God, and Christian faith in the face of life’s harsh realities. Skeptics Answered affirms the faith of Christians everywhere and is ideal for both personal and group study. In addition, it makes an excellent gift for any non-believer who, as a matter of intellectual integrity, is willing to consider the clear evidence for the Christian faith

From the Hardcover edition.

About the Author
Dr. D. James Kennedy is the senior minister of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida; president of Coral Ridge Ministries; and featured speaker on The Coral Ridge Hour television program. He is also featured on the radio programs Truths that Transform and The Kennedy

allowed to “drop out,” or were even harshly suppressed by the increasingly powerful clergy in statu nascendi-
***Again, more nonsense. By the time there were ‘established’ clergy there were circulating thousands of copies of the new testament.

even though there may have been more factual evidence backing them up than some of the more-preposterous claims.
***Now you’re just couching your terms.

alex: To note that an observer, standing on a smooth plain, cannot directly perceive the curvature of the Earth is NOT to subscribe to or advocate the “Flat Earth” Theory. Rather, it is merely stating a FACT.

Kevmo: ***Interesting but inapplicable analogy. Historians acknowledge the existence of Christ and put the historical evidence for him at very high levels of reliability — a FACT.

Non sequitur! My analogy stands! Because I merely pointed out the FACT
***IT IS NOT a FACT. It is YOUR ASSERTION.

that there is more evidence supporting the existence of one person as compared to the amount/quality of evidence supporting another,
***Your ASSertions do not automatically become facts.

you threw me into the “adherents of the ‘Christ Is Complete Fabrication” camp,
***You threw yourself there, by way of your pretense that Christ never existed.

thus allowing you to dismiss me as a mere “camp follower”
***That’s pretty much all you are. You haven’t wavered one bit.

and/or to ascribe “guilt/invalidity by association”
***No, I’m ascribing your own guilt by your own self-ascribing to the fringe theory that Christ never existed.

and/or permitting you to combat my standpoint by attacking “Christ Myth” supporters
***That’s pretty much what you are. The rest is just some game you’re playing.

rather than addressing my arguments (”Straw Man” tactic!). That is invalid of you!
***I have been addressing your arguments. But there’s more than argumentation here, there is False Teaching. Christ was quite harsh with false teachers of His day, calling them vipers and sons of Satan and unmarked tombs. So I feel there’s leeway in combatting your evil agenda.

Kevmo: It is antichristian bigots who try to erase His imprint on history [...] You’re no historian, you’re simply another antichristian activist who wants [...]

So, it’s come to this now, has it?
***Yes, because I have no confidence in your honesty towards the evidence plus, since Jesus was harsh with false teachers of His day, I am free to engage in the same manner.

Ad hominem attacks?
***Jesus called those horrible people some horrible names. Are you gonna say He was unChristlike when He was doing so?

You can’t find legitimate weaknesses in my arguments, so you resort to name-calling? How unworthy of you!
***What a beautiful attempt at manipulation... but I’m not buying into it. Lurkers have pathways around your ideological nonsense and they can find their way around your falsehoods. But since FR is a Pro-God website it begs the question why false teachers and vipers such as yourself are allowed to operate on it so freely...

[...] who wants to deny the obvious historical evidence for Jesus [...]
***Yup, that describes you pretty well.

“Begging the question” (”I’m right because it’s obvious that I’m right!”) / Circular reasoning!
***You’re on a pro-God website. https://freerepublic.com/help.htm
Statement by the founder of Free Republic

As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America.

And you started off so well,
***You didn’t. Antichristian bigotry is NOT Pro-God, it is antithetical to the principles that FR is built upon.

The subject of the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth often comes up in Creationism/Evolution (crevo) threads. Here we should establish the known facts with respect to the history of Jesus, whether he was a real historical figure.

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2056400/posts?page=1#1