Posted on 11/10/2020 7:34:34 AM PST by PROCON
And in case there was any doubt I'm a huge believer in jury nullification in cases where a prosecutor becomes political...as has surely happened in this case.
I guess it depends on the law in WI. IIRC, here in my home state of PA you can make a straw purchase if you purchase a firearm with the intent to transfer the firearm to another. If Rittenhouse provided the funds for the purchase and his buddy bought the rifle with the intent to give it to Rittenhouse at a future date, then handing it to him on day of the riots is a transfer. I’m betting the prosecution will argue that the defendant can’t “loan” a rifle that he straw purchased. If that is not the case, then no straw purchase case could ever be prosecuted, because the straw purchaser would say he merely loaned the firearm and did not transfer it. I should think that loophole is statutorily closed as a defense when a straw purchase occurs.
I think the key question is, “is there a pattern at work”, i.e. if one buys a firearm, then suddenly needs money or finds the piece just doesn’t work for them, then it’s not an issue if they sell it soon after. If this happens repeatedly, then one’s effectively acting as an unlicensed dealer, and that’s cause for suspicion.
It’s also a matter of who was named as the buyer on the paperwork. If it’s multiple people involved in a purchase, then the paperwork has to reflect the ultimate possessor.
Black may have admitted it to avoid being charged as an accessory to murder.
I believe a person under 18 can possess a firearm in WI if hunting. Possession while defending a gas station is probably not a safe harbor for Rittenhouse
I believe Rittenhouse (or any other minor) can possess a firearm in WI only if licensed to hunt and if actually hunting. I think I read this back when the shooting first happened.
LOL see my post #23 above.
True. Total hypocrisy and bias without shame by those DAs mostly there due to Soros campaign money.
Exactly!
If under 18. Also if in the company and supervision of an adult. Which he was for awhile, but not after he left the police perimiter I'm going to post the WI, not Federal, straw purchase law
Current through Acts 2019-2020, ch. 186
Section 941.2905 - Straw purchasing of firearms
(1) Whoever intentionally furnishes, purchases, or possesses a firearm for a person, knowing that the person is prohibited from possessing a firearm under s. 941.29(1m), is guilty of a Class G felony.
(2) The prohibition in sub. (1) against possessing a firearm for a person who is prohibited from possessing a firearm does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
(a) A person to whom the firearm is surrendered under s. 813.1285.
(b) A person who has been designated under s. 51.20(13) (cv) 3. to store the firearm during the duration of the order under s. 51.20(13) (cv) 1. not to possess a firearm.
(c) A person who has been designated under s. 51.45(13)
(i) 3. to store the firearm during the duration of the order under s. 51.45(13) (i) 1. not to possess a firearm.
(d) A person who has been designated under s. 54.10(3)
(f) 3. to store the firearm during the duration of the order under s. 54.10(3) (f) 1.
(e) A person who has been designated under s. 55.12(10)
(c) to store the firearm during the duration of the order under s. 55.12(10) (a).
(f) A person not covered under pars. (a) to (e) who has been designated to store the firearm during the duration of any temporary prohibition on the possession of a firearm.
That is not true. Under Wisconsin law Rittenhouse could legally possess a rifle. I have posted the citations to the Wisconsin statutes multiple times, you can search them up.
Where is the law that makes the intended recipient a felon?
That law would not affect Kyle. He didn’t purchase the gun. He never took permanent possession of it.
I’m not even sure he would have been prohibited from having it on his person at the time of the incident.
What is the law for carrying a weapon in Wisconsin?
"In 2018, Wisconsin legislatures passed a measure that made it illegal to buy a gun with the intent to give it to a person who is prohibited from having it."
But Rittenhouse was not in the least prohibited from having the gun in his possession under Wisconsin law.
Straw purchase laws require that the intent of the transaction was to hide the true owner. In this case that true owner may well be the 19 year old friend.
Just because someone gets money from someone else to buy something does not establish that the person who gave the money is the legal owner. For example, if you tell your 12 year old to save up her money to get the dog she wants, and then you go and buy it the dog belongs to you. You certainly won't be able to argue that you have no liability for the dog's actions if it bites the postman.
Not correct.
Here is an article on the Wisconsin law.
+1
5.56mm
collaborating in an interstate straw arms purchase would imho seem out of character for kyle... not to mention using venmo, and thus leaving a blazingly obvious paper trail for someone to sniff and follow... so, sounds like a trumped up charge (jmho)...
Just posted it for clarification. Unfortunately for both boys this will be argued in front of a judge. Most sources state age 18, I’ll post two references. I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know if the statute referencing age 16 applies when not hunting.
948.60 Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.
948.60 Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.
(1) In this section, "dangerous weapon" means any firearm, loaded or unloaded; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (1c) (a); metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles; a nunchaku or any similar weapon consisting of 2 sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather; a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand; a shuriken or any similar pointed star-like object intended to injure a person when thrown; or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends. (2)
(a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(b) Except as provided in par. (c), any person who intentionally sells, loans or gives a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a Class I felony.
(c) Whoever violates par. (b) is guilty of a Class H felony if the person under 18 years of age under par. (b) discharges the firearm and the discharge causes death to himself, herself or another.
(d) A person under 17 years of age who has violated this subsection is subject to the provisions of ch. 938 unless jurisdiction is waived under s. 938.18 or the person is subject to the jurisdiction of a court of criminal jurisdiction under s. 938.183.
(3)
(a) This section does not apply to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a dangerous weapon when the dangerous weapon is being used in target practice under the supervision of an adult or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the supervision of an adult. This section does not apply to an adult who transfers a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age for use only in target practice under the adult's supervision or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the adult's supervision.
(b) This section does not apply to a person under 18 years of age who is a member of the armed forces or national guard and who possesses or is armed with a dangerous weapon in the line of duty. This section does not apply to an adult who is a member of the armed forces or national guard and who transfers a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age in the line of duty.
(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.
History: 1987 a. 332; 1991 a. 18, 139; 1993 a. 98; 1995 a. 27, 77; 1997 a. 248; 2001 a. 109; 2005 a. 163; 2011 a. 35.
Sub. (2) (b) does not set a standard for civil liability, and a violation of sub. (2) (b) does not constitute negligence per se. Logarto v. Gustafson, 998 F. Supp. 998 (1998).
...........................................
29.304 Restrictions on hunting and use of firearms by persons under 16 years of age.
(1) Persons under 12 years of age.
(a) Prohibition on hunting. No person under 12 years of age may hunt with a firearm, bow and arrow, or crossbow.
(b) Restrictions on possession or control of a firearm. No person under 12 years of age may have in his or her possession or control any firearm unless he or she is enrolled in the course of instruction under the hunter education program and he or she is carrying the firearm in a case and unloaded to or from that class under the supervision of his or her parent or guardian, or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian, or is handling or operating the firearm during that class under the supervision of an instructor.
(c) Restrictions on obtaining hunting approval. Except as provided under par. (d), no person under 12 years of age may obtain any approval authorizing hunting.
(d) Restrictions on validity of certificate of accomplishment. A person under 12 years of age may obtain a certificate of accomplishment if he or she complies with the requirements of s. 29.591 (4) but that certificate is not valid for the hunting of small game until that person becomes 12 years of age.
(2) Persons 12 to 14 years of age.
(a) Restrictions on hunting. No person 12 years of age or older but under 14 years of age may hunt unless he or she is accompanied by his or her parent or guardian, or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian.
(b) Restrictions on possession or control of a firearm. No person 12 years of age or older but under 14 years of age may have in his or her possession or control any firearm unless he or she:
1. Is accompanied by his or her parent or guardian or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian; or
2. Is enrolled in the course of instruction under the hunter education program and is carrying the firearm in a case and unloaded to or from that class or is handling or operating the firearm during that class under the supervision of an instructor.
(3) Persons 14 to 16 years of age.
(a) Restrictions on hunting. No person 14 years of age or older but under 16 years of age may hunt unless he or she:
1. Is accompanied by his or her parent or guardian or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian; or
2. Is issued a certificate of accomplishment that states that he or she successfully completed the course of instruction under the hunter education program or has a similar certificate, license, or other evidence satisfactory to the department indicating that he or she has successfully completed in another state, country, or province a hunter education course recognized by the department.
(b) Restrictions on possession or control of a firearm. No person 14 years of age or older but under 16 years of age may have in his or her possession or control any firearm unless he or she:
1. Is accompanied by his or her parent or guardian or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian;
2. Is enrolled in the course of instruction under the hunter education program and is carrying the firearm in a case and unloaded to or from that class or is handling or operating the firearm during that class under the supervision of an instructor; or
3. Is issued a certificate of accomplishment that states that he or she successfully completed the course of instruction under the hunter education program or has a similar certificate, license, or other evidence satisfactory to the department indicating that he or she has successfully completed in another state, country, or province a hunter education course recognized by the department.
(4) Parental obligation. No parent or guardian of a child under 16 years of age may authorize or knowingly permit the child to violate this section.
(4m) Hunting mentorship program. The prohibition specified in sub. (1) (a) and the restrictions specified in subs. (1) (b) to (d), (2), and (3) do not apply to a person who is hunting with a mentor and who complies with the requirements specified under s. 29.592.
(5) Exception.
(a) Notwithstanding subs. (1) to (3), a person 12 years of age or older may possess or control a firearm and may hunt with a firearm, bow and arrow, or crossbow on land under the ownership of the person or the person's family if no license is required and if the firing of firearms is permitted on that land.
(b) 1. In this paragraph, “ target practice" includes trap shooting or a similar sport shooting activity regardless of whether the activity involves shooting at a fixed or a moving target.
2. The restrictions on the possession and control of a firearm under sub. (1) do not apply to a person using a firearm in target practice if he or she is accompanied by his or her parent or guardian or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian. History: 1983 a. 420; 1997 a. 197; 1997 a. 248 s. 431; Stats. 1997 s. 29.304; 2005 a. 289; 2009 a. 39; 2011 a. 252, 258.
Cross-reference: See also s. NR 10.001, Wis. adm. code.
.............................................
You'll also note most sites state age 18.
I posted the relevant laws below for another freeper, there’s also a good link to an Ammoland article suggesting 16 is the correct age. And noted that most sources will state 18. I’m not a lawyer, my kids are all well over 18. It may well be 16, but I’d suggest a 16 year old open carrying in many parts of WI, particularly urban, may well need the benefit of a lawyer to establish it.
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