Donald Trump says the Confederate flag is a proud symbol of US south

Reuters via South China Morning Post ^ | 07/19/2020

[FLT-bird]

Several Supreme Court cases say otherwise. You're referring to Texas V White which was decided after the fact by a majority of Lincoln appointees. Color me unimpressed.

[FLT-bird]

Article III, Section 3, Clause 1. Look it up. Yes let's do look that up. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." The Confederate states did not levy war against them (ie the states of the US). It was exactly the reverse. They were at peace and then they were attacked by the Lincoln administration. Thanks for playing. You lose.

[DoodleDawg]

The Confederate states did not levy war against them (ie the states of the US).

Yeah they did. It was in all the history books.

They were at peace and then they were attacked by the Lincoln administration. Thanks for playing. You lose.

Declare victory and walk away? LOL! The rebels states should have tried that.

[DoodleDawg]

You're referring to Texas V White which was decided after the fact by a majority of Lincoln appointees. Color me unimpressed.

And the Prize Cases. And Virginia v. West Virginia. And a number of other cases where the court referred to the southern action as rebellion. Heck, even Jefferson Davis referred to it as a rebellion (in a speech to the Mississippi legislature in ecember 1862). You're one of the few that haven't accepted fact but prefer to cling to fiction.

[FLT-bird]

And the Prize Cases. And Virginia v. West Virginia. And a number of other cases where the court referred to the southern action as rebellion. Heck, even Jefferson Davis referred to it as a rebellion (in a speech to the Mississippi legislature in ecember 1862). You're one of the few that haven't accepted fact but prefer to cling to fiction. You realize that the states are sovereign and do not require a permission slip from a branch of the federal government to exercise their sovereign right to secede from......wait for it.....the federal government - right? Might does not make right. You cling desperately to the fiction that it does.

[FLT-bird]

Yeah they did. It was in all the history books. No they didn't. They were at peace and were attacked by the Lincoln administration. Its in the history books. Declare victory and walk away? LOL! The rebels states should have tried that. You lost the argument.

[DoodleDawg]

No they didn't. They were at peace and were attacked by the Lincoln administration. Its in the history books.

Bombarding a fort into submission, firing on merchant ships, and trying to starve a garrison into surrender are not peaceful acts. Davis kept trying until he finally got his war. Didn't work out quite like he had planned, did it?

You lost the argument.

Oh I haven't even started yet.

[DoodleDawg]

ou realize that the states are sovereign and do not require a permission slip from a branch of the federal government to exercise their sovereign right to secede from......wait for it.....the federal government - right?

No, but then again I've never had your imagination.

Might does not make right. You cling desperately to the fiction that it does.

No, right makes right. That's why the good guys won the rebellion.

[FLT-bird]

Bombarding a fort into submission, firing on merchant ships, and trying to starve a garrison into surrender are not peaceful acts. Davis kept trying until he finally got his war. Didn't work out quite like he had planned, did it? Invading the territory of another is not a peaceful act. Lincoln wanted the war and started it deliberately without the consent of Congress. Oh I haven't even started yet. All you can do is dig the hole deeper for yourself.

[FLT-bird]

No, but then again I've never had your imagination. Yes they are. It doesn't take imagination. All it takes is reading the express provisos passed by 3 states at the time of ratification or the 9th and 10th amendments. No, right makes right. That's why the good guys won the rebellion. Having more men and more guns means you have more men and more guns. It doesn't mean you're right. Your side wasn't. Aggressors never are.

[DoodleDawg]

Invading the territory of another is not a peaceful act.

How could Lincoln invade the U.S.? You've never been able to explain that.

[DoodleDawg]

Yes they are.

So you keep saying.

All it takes is reading the express provisos passed by 3 states at the time of ratification or the 9th and 10th amendments.

Can you quote them please?

[FLT-bird]

How could Lincoln invade the U.S.? You've never been able to explain that. He didn't. It wasn't the territory of the US. I've explained many times. You appear to lack the grey matter to grasp it.

[FLT-bird]

So you keep saying. So they are. Can you quote them please? No, you can look them up.

[Bull Snipe]

Wrong, the ships were of little threat. Davis had decided that Sumter would not be resupplied by any means. As I said, it could have been girl scouts in canoes. Davis would have opened fire.

[FLT-bird]

Wrong, the ships were of little threat. Davis had decided that Sumter would not be resupplied by any means. As I said, it could have been girl scouts in canoes. Davis would have opened fire. Wrong the ships were very much a threat. Even if it was girl scouts in canoes, the US, a foreign country, had no right to invade their territory.

[Bull Snipe]

Davis was willing to go to war over Sumter. He got what he wanted, Sumter and a war.

[FLT-bird]

Davis was willing to go to war over Sumter. He got what he wanted, Sumter and a war. Lincoln sent a heavily armed fleet with hundreds of troops to invade South Carolina's sovereign territory with the express purpose of starting a war.

[Bull Snipe]

2 steam powered tugs, both unarmed, one cargo ship, also unarmed, one revenue cutter and 2 warships, 200 artillerymen and 4 month worth of food, hardly constitute an “armed fleet”. The expressed purpose was to re-provision Sumter. Had Davis allowed that to happen, the warships were to return to their home ports. Their orders were not to fire, unless fired upon.

[FLT-bird]

2 steam powered tugs, both unarmed, one cargo ship, also unarmed, one revenue cutter and 2 warships, 200 artillerymen and 4 month worth of food, hardly constitute an “armed fleet”. The expressed purpose was to re-provision Sumter. Had Davis allowed that to happen, the warships were to return to their home ports. Their orders were not to fire, unless fired upon. The steam sloop-of-war USS Pawnee, 181 officers and enlisted Armament: • 8 × 9 in guns, • 2 × 12-pounder guns USS Powhatan, 289 officers and enlisted Armament: • 1 × 11 in (280 mm) Dahlgren smoothbore gun, 10 × 9 in (230 mm) Dahlgren smoothbore guns • 5 × 12-pounder guns, also transporting steam launches and about 300 sailors (besides the crew, these to be used to augment Army troops) Armed screw steamer USS Pocahontas, 150 officers and men (approx.) 4 × 32-pounder guns, 1 × 10-pounder gun, 1 × 20-pounder Parrot rifle The Revenue Cutter USS Harriet Lane, 95 officers and men Armament: 1 x 4in gun, 1 x 9in gun, 2 x 8in guns, 2 x 24 lb brass howitzers The steamer Baltic transporting about 200 troops, composed of companies C and D of the 2nd U.S. Artillery, and three hired tug boats with added protection against small arms fire to be used to tow troop and supply barges directly to Fort Sumter (or some other point since it is inconceivable that they would be taking small arms fire from a union held fortification ) Totals 4 war ships 4 transports 38 heavy guns 1200 military personnel (at least 500 of whom were to be used as a landing party) Does this sound like "provisions" to you????