Trump Admin to Revoke California’s Power to Set Its Own Auto Emission Rules

ktla ^ | 09/17/2019

[Hugh the Scot]

Sorry, FRiend. You lost me at “emissions are part of commerce.”

Totally incorrect at the outset.

[Hostage]

You get lost easily don’t you?

Reread and read carefully.

Here’s what you need to ask yourself:

What causes emissions?

What governs things that cause emissions.

And we are talking about man-made emissions and not natural emissions, right?

You should be able to do it. My 7th grader can do it.

Give it a try and you shouldn’t get ‘lost’.

[Hugh the Scot]

So you’ve decided that smartass will work where ignorance failed?

There is no commerce in emissions.

Did I say that the government had no authority to regulate equipment? No, I didn’t.

You, and the federal government, and the Supreme Court would twist the plain meaning of the commerce clause to allow government intrusion into all aspects of a citizen’s life. It’s already happened, and usefuls like yourself enable it.

A state regulating emissions within it’s own borders does not touch interstate commerce. The market may be affected, and that’s unfortunate, but it doesn’t violate the commerce clause.

[Hostage]

Ok you want a pissing contest but I won’t give you one.

Here’s a simple question for you:

Name one piece of equipment that causes emissions. There are dozens and dozens but I am asking you to name just one, Ok? Can you do that?

[Bulwyf]

Don’t forget northern Alberta. The DEF systems are complete crap and do nothing but shorten your engine life. It freezes up and puts your truck in limp mode. I deleted my HD 3500 when she was still brand new, put in a small Congnito 4 inch lift and called it good. Now she’s at 237,000kms and I have drove the roughest stuff we have available. Cooper MTs and regular maintenance. Screw california’s regs.

[Hugh the Scot]

I *can* do a great many things... I won’t play your ridiculous game, as you’ve already lost.

You failed to tie emissions (specifically) to any aspect of interstate commerce.

[Hugh the Scot]

Low quality bait.

You’ve failed to tie emissions (specifically) to any aspect of interstate commerce.

Would you like another chance?

[mrsmith]

Yeah, state rules are too big.

Should allow localities to have power though.
LA Basin is insanely polluted.

La residents should be required to only own electric vehicles.
Smog has always been a problem there.
When you look around it’s like you’re inside a huge brown pipe.

Of course requiring the whole state to work under rules that are only good for the LA Basin is silly and overbearing.

[Hostage]

I want everyone to see the sad state that FR has devolved into.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/09/06/2019-19092/marine-diesel-engine-emission-standards

There are hundreds of actions and proposals governing diesel engines alone and emission levels are part of their design which means diesel engine emission standards fall under commerce because diesels fall under commerce. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry that designs a diesel must meet federal standards of which emission standards are part of the code. Any diesel meeting or exceeding FEDERAL standards is eligible to be sold in any state unless the FEDERAL government has granted special exemptions or adjustments to a state or states which is rare and this right to sell in any state such eligible equipment meeting federal standards is made possible by the Commerce Clause.

California cannot invent its own standards for commerce. It can talk about emission standards but it cannot mandate which equipment must meet its standards of emissions unless the federal government signs off on it which means Congress has to be involved which means all 50 states are involved.

Emissions are part of commerce because emissions (man-made) come from equipment which must be designed and manufactured to meet federal standards.

[Hugh the Scot]

Oh wow. The federal government is regulating emissions, therefore they have the constitutional authority to do so?

The federal government infringes on the right of the people to keep and bear arms of war. Does that mean that they have a constitutional mandate to do so?

The federal government funds the abortion industry. Totally correct from a constitutional perspective?

How are emissions traded and sold in interstate commerce?

[Hostage]

> “How are emissions traded and sold in interstate commerce?”

Equipment generating or modifying emissions is sold if such equipment meet or exceed federal standards.

The federal government via Congress has adopted to set emissions standards of equipment sold in the United States.

The federal government also has the power to impose its emission standards on equipment manufactured and imported from outside the United States. California does not have this power.

California can’t go it alone from all the other states. If it wants to make its own emission standards it can do so but it cannot restrict the sale of equipment meeting or exceeding FEDERAL standards.

If California wants to restrict the sale of equipment that generates emissions that meet or exceed federal standards, it must first propose federal changes to legislation via its US Senators or any of its House Representatives and then go from there. It cannot go it alone because Commerce has jurisdiction.

[Hugh the Scot]

I’ll go really slow this time.

This is the “commerce clause”:
“To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.”

Vehicles and equipment, as you have correctly stated, are USED in commerce, and traded in commerce. They are not commerce in and of themselves.

Emissions from vehicles and equipment are twice removed then from any federal regulatory powers granted by the commerce clause, as they are not only not commerce, but the source equipment also is not commerce.

You’re (incorrect) interpretation would grant the federal government the power to regulate all goods and services of any kind whether or not they are used in trade... Certainly not the intent of the Framers.

[infool7]

UAW to go on strike after negotiations with GM fall through

My post at #16

Strip all of the unnecessary protectionist regulations and
several car companies will emerge overnight then
real competition will cause the price of vehicles to plummet.
Anyone got a few mill they can lend me to get one started?

Wow! I saw this coming three days ago.

7

[Sgt_Schultze]

The administration should also stop permitting states to specify their own gasoline formulations.

[taildragger]

"Exactly! No state,or group of states, should have any say when it comes to things like emissions or firearms. Any such regulations should come from DC and then have their Constitutionality confirmed,or knocked down,by the courts.

GSC, you forgot Sanctuary Cities/States, and infanticide abortions.

Notice the timing. This will go to Court, go up all the way to the Supremes after RGB is as Rush would say at room temperature, and Federalism will win, especially if ACB is on the Court IMHO. Kind of what the left has done too us for years, a reverse Alinsky, schadenfruede baby....

Dennis Prager and others with much greater gray matter than I have noted the left is behaving like the Confederacy in the the 1850-ish time-frame with their belligerence literally pushing us towards you know what...

Don't even get me started about EPA test cycles and how much the Big 3 spend in engine development programs (think 100 to 200 million at a pop) and are always updating for more HP & Torque and better BSFC. That will all be supplanted by E-drivetrains because of the instanity of what they are doing now. Buy the battery pack, motor, & controller from suppliers if you don't do it yourself, and not have to deal w/ the EPA emissions cycle goat rodeo.

BTW, this all got started by a Michigan Hot Dog manufacture over their desire to be better than USDA standards as one of my brilliant gnomes as taught me.

[LS]

I suspect with or without Buzzi on the court, very soon the Supreme Court is going to take up a clump of cases that will rule on “sanctuary cities” and other forms of outlawed “nullification.”

They simply can’t rule otherwise or they would open the door to states passing anti-Muslim laws, anti-homosexual laws, etc.