Posted on 04/30/2019 4:26:25 PM PDT by Kaslin
Ah, NO.
Sure. We go into Venezuela and every Venezuelan comes running out of the place here. And they’ll have a legitimate reason- the US invaded their country. Let Russia’s kids die for Venezuela. Putin and the Russian economy can’t afford it. For crying out loud we’re still in Afghanistan.
The Venezuelans themselves? Or do you mean the Cubans, Russians, Red Chinese who are buttressing Maduros regime? This is easy set a deadline for these parasites to get out, after witch we go hunting them. Maduros collapses on his own and it is up to Guiado and the military to be interested stability to Venezuela. No nation building on our part.
They can already do this
So we should be the world police?
bump
Now, if they were make permanent stationing there that would be cause to run them out.
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That was my concern. I’m well aware of Russian deployments and operations off our coasts.
Our adversaries are constantly looking for signs of weakness to exploit. And they will if given the opportunity.
Why is it for Americans to decide about who are on US borders? Reciprocity is the major principle of foreign affairs. Let neighbors decide.
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When those “guests” can launch missiles that are only a short flight away from our country it is up to us to defend ourselves against that threat. If it looked like your neighbor was planning to roll a Howitzer cannon into his yard and direct it at your home (making for an undefensible situation) what would you do?
That’s a legit question unless I have my howitzer in his backyard aimed at his home before he did it.
You want into that mess?
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That mess has the potential to metastasize into a far greater mess and even more flash points down the road if we don’t neutralize it and deter our adversaries from expanding their presence in this area. Russia, China and Cuba are salivating over the commercial and military opportunities there. An isolationist mentality is a luxury but not reality. When there are problems in your own backyard you ignore them at your own peril.
Now imagine your other neighbor does the same thing. The point is the Venezuela problem cannot be viewed as an isolate threat. Problems have a way of spreading if you don’t take care of business. Not saying we should launch an invasion; just that we need to do everything we can (including covert ops) to hasten Maduro’s departure and help restore some semblance of stability in that country.
Whether in our "backyard," or 6,000 miles away, the same questions must be first addressed insofar as: what exactly our objectives are (aside from kicking out Maduro), size and impact of the operation, the ramifications for involvement (and noninvolvement), who the friendlies are, what defines success, and exit strategy. For those who aren't aware, Venezuela isn't exactly friendly territory; at least two generations there have been inculcated with the narrative that the US is an arrogant, aggressive bully.. as such, let's not harbor any "cheering us on the street" notions. They don't like Maduro, but they did like Chavez. The last thing this country wants is yet another bloody and costly quagmire, so those who feel it's an absolute necessity have a tall order on their hands to sell this to the general public. Fortunately so far President Trump - unlike Bush - has shown restraint against engaging the military recklessly. The sales job will first have to be presented to him.
Unfortunately this is not just a Venezuela problem. Russia, China and especially Cuba are involved in the country’s affairs. Its a complex and vexing challenge for Trump, to be sure. Compounding the problem for him is the problem you alluded to (i.e., our history of getting into bloody and costly quagmires that were lacking exit strategies).
That’s a discussion for another thread but suffice to say that since Trump has already committed to backing Guaido our national prestige and credibility are on the line, not just with Venezuela but with many other nations in the region and elsewhere. This ups the ante.
Not suggesting we launch a major invasion of Venezuela. Just saying we have a clear interest in stabilizing the country, sending a message to our adversaries, and containing the problem. Covert military operations and/or other kinetic pressures are almost certainly being evaluated and may be necessary if the chaos and violence doesn’t end soon.
Do you honestly not understand what allowing unfriendly nations to have proximate bases ultimately means? What was the Cuban missile crisis about, anyway?
I don’t want war either, which is exactly why we don’t want enemy bases nearby.
I fully agree with you both and your concerns are very reasonable.
The Monroe Doctrine is a great thing and should be enforces but to what point? Are you ready to sacrifice yourself in a nuclear war over it? Or maybe you want your children to fight and die in South America?
That is a diplomatic issue. In order for other countries to recognize US security concerns you need to make US government recognize theirs.
The problem is the US government believes that US armor in Estonia 300 yards from the Russian border or USN in China Sea are a good thing but Russian bombers in Venezuela more than thousand miles away from US are inconceivable.
Something is wrong with this way of thinking.
A capability for abstract thinking and reflection is that make human different from primate. Imagine yourself in Russian or Chinese boots and the solution for insecurities would be found.
We can only dream to see neocons to be above primates but they aren’t and they are in charge of foreign policy.
Imagine yourself in Russian or Chinese boots and the solution for insecurities would be found.
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Its not as simple as that. Russia, China and Cuba are deeply involved in this calculus and no doubt have designs of their own for the region. To ignore that reality is simply being naive. They are not inclined to abandon their multi-faceted motives for being in Venezuela.
Its a universal truth that perceived weakness invites aggression, and can lead to tragic miscalculations. There’s nothing abstract about that concept at all. Again, I’m not advocating an invasion but diplomacy is only effective so long as there are other credible sanctions and/or “sticks” that can be brought to bear.
“” “” Its a universal truth that perceived weakness invites aggression, and can lead to tragic miscalculations. There’s nothing abstract about that concept at all. Again, I’m not advocating an invasion but diplomacy is only effective so long as there are other credible sanctions and/or “sticks” that can be brought to bear.”” “”
Russia and China are thinking exactly the same. What any more stick do you want? Are plans to forbid Chinese trade in dollars on menu?
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