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Idaho Police Department Thanks 'Heroic' Nurse For Standing Up To Utah Cop
The Puffington Post via Yahoo Noose ^ | September 4, 2017 | Ed Mazza

Posted on 09/04/2017 10:18:33 AM PDT by Navy Patriot

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To: boop

This was not an ER matter. It involved a burn unit patient. No doctor is going to get in trouble over this. And a nurse most certainly can refuse to carry out an illegal or unethical request.


101 posted on 09/04/2017 5:34:30 PM PDT by Ken H (Best election ever!)
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To: boop
RNs don't get to make medical or legal calls ON THEIR OWN.

There was no legal call to make, because the cop was not only violating the well-established policy between his own police department and the hospital, the cop was violating Utah and United States laws in trying to obtain blood, without a warrant, from an unconscious victim who was not under arrest.

Without a warrant, the cop had no legal business being there in the first place.

Because he clearly had no legal business being there, as affirmed by his police department's policies, his superiors, his own report, the state of Utah and the United States Supreme Court, we should be focusing on the more important issues, such as:

1. Why did multiple police officers stand around and allow this cop to try and do something illegal, and then allow this cop to assault a woman who was trying to prevent him from doing something illegal.

2. Why was this cop so desperate to obtain a blood sample, that he would not only ignore getting a warrant (or perhaps he was denied a warrant), but he had a discussion outside about getting a blood sample by bypassing the staff and going straight to the patient's room.
102 posted on 09/04/2017 5:37:36 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

They didn’t want to get shot. If any one would have tried to help, the cop might have felt threatened and pulled his gun.


103 posted on 09/04/2017 5:51:22 PM PDT by redgolum
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To: Ken H
"And a nurse most certainly can refuse to carry out an illegal or unethical request."

From WHOM?

I agree that a COP cannot order this on his own, but still, the DOCTOR is in charge.

From what we know, and I use that term loosely, there is a distinct absence of any "doctor's orders" here.

Again, I'm struck by the absence of the so-called doctor. Once I learn of his absence, and his reason why, I'm still of the opinion that he was derelict.

As a physician, I can tell you that nobody bosses me, nor my staff around.

I cannot do my job if some interloper is throwing his "supposed" weight around.

As you are clearly a seasoned ER physician, and FMCSA expert, I have to ask how you would respond to an unconscious patient.

Regardless of cause, how do you personally take care of a MVA patient?

104 posted on 09/04/2017 6:15:01 PM PDT by boop (I'd wish you luck, but you wouldn't know what to do with it if you had it!)
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To: boop

Because the defective didn’t have a warrant, the patient was not under arrest, and had not given consent.


105 posted on 09/04/2017 6:42:29 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Winter is coming)
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To: boop

Me: And a nurse most certainly can refuse to carry out an illegal or unethical request.

boop: From WHOM?

Me: Anyone.

boop: I agree that a COP cannot order this on his own, but still, the DOCTOR is in charge.

Me: The cop did try to order it on his own and she refused. It’s that simple. What does a doctor or doctor’s order -or lack thereof- have to do with a nurse’s refusal to carry out an illegal or unethical act requested by a cop? Nothing. It’s a red herring that you are bringing to the discussion.

boop: As you are clearly a seasoned ER physician, and FMCSA expert, I have to ask how you would respond to an unconscious patient.

Me: Treat them with state of the art medical care, including alcohol and drug tests if there were altered mental status.

Again, that is a MEDICAL decision, not a legal one. And a nurse would be within her rights to refuse an illegal or unethical order from the doctor or anyone else.


106 posted on 09/04/2017 6:45:23 PM PDT by Ken H (Best election ever!)
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To: Navy Patriot

I made the same point kast week when thus story broke.


107 posted on 09/04/2017 6:52:08 PM PDT by shotgun
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To: Ken H

But apparently a COP is obliged to carry out an illegal order from his superior.


108 posted on 09/04/2017 6:56:45 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Winter is coming)
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To: Ken H

And... since he is unconscious, I guess there would be altered mental status:)


109 posted on 09/04/2017 7:10:11 PM PDT by Ken H (Best election ever!)
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To: shotgun
I made the same point last week when this story broke.

And you have been right ever since.

110 posted on 09/04/2017 7:49:23 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (America returns to the Rule of Law)
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To: Ken H
OK. I'm done here.

Apparently you are NOT a doctor.

Some layman cannot come into the ER and give medical orders.

Whoever the doctor was dropped the ball.

IDK who you think you are, you don't come into an ER and start giving doctors orders.

I invite you to try and see what happens.

That's real groovy if you "feel" something is going on that you as a layman doesn't like.

Doctors are the ones who write and verbally give orders to his staff.

Are you going to take responsibility for the care of the patient?

Again, no.

It is fully on the doctor's orders.

Whoever the guy was he f'd up.

And when it all comes out in the wash, HE will be responsible.

I don't think you have any concept of what a doctor does, nor what his medico-legal responsibilities are.

This a-hole is on the hook.

Not the nurse, the doctor.

HE is the one who will pay, and believe me he will.

If a nurse disobeyed an order from the doctor, she better be ready to explain herself.

111 posted on 09/04/2017 8:30:55 PM PDT by boop (I'd wish you luck, but you wouldn't know what to do with it if you had it!)
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To: boop

You are off the wall if you think a doctor is going to catch any heat over this. I get that the ER doctor is in charge of the ER, but this was a burn unit patient and it was not a medical issue.

It was an administrative issue between the hospital and SLCPD. That’s why she was on the the phone to her boss, who I believe was an administrator.


112 posted on 09/04/2017 9:05:40 PM PDT by Ken H (Best election ever!)
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To: CodeToad

A totally unwarranted comment. There are bad police officers just like their are bad people in other professions. Don’t paint all “Cops” with the same brush. Police officers put their lives on the line for us every single day. They’ve got a tough job to do, and most do it extremely well. We should all be thankful for - The Thin Blue Line.


113 posted on 09/05/2017 8:14:03 AM PDT by Shane (When Injustice Becomes Law, RESISTANCE Becomes DUTY.----T.Jefferson)
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To: Shane

Let me know when cops erase that “Blue Line” and join the rest of us Americans.


114 posted on 09/05/2017 8:17:06 AM PDT by CodeToad (Victorious warriors WIN first, then go to war! Go TRUMP!!!)
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To: Shane

Your Blue Line has been put under restrictions by the hospital. That means they have zero trust in an entire PD of a medium size city. Doesn’t speak well for the Blue Line, does it =>

Utah hospital to cops: Stay away from our nurses

The University of Utah Hospital, where a nurse was manhandled and arrested by police as she protected the legal rights of a patient, has imposed new restrictions on law enforcement, including barring officers from patient-care areas and from direct contact with nurses.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/04/utah-hospital-bars-cops-from-contact-with-nurses-after-appalling-arrest/


115 posted on 09/05/2017 1:22:50 PM PDT by Ken H (Best election ever!)
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