an explosion and a detonation aren't the same, burn rate of a detonation is ~20,000fps and up
Posted on 08/30/2016 4:57:36 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA
They made billiard balls from nitrocellose in the 19th century. They were flammable and sometime a sharp strike with a cue caused a loud pop from an outer shell explosion.
Every cowpuncher in the joint would go for his gun.
Semantics.
It should remain classified as a propellant, in real world situations, that is how it behaves.
page 2
Smokeless powders, or propellants, are essentially mixtures of
chemicals designed to burn under controlled conditions at the proper
rate to propel a projectile from a gun.
All smokeless powders are extremely flammable; by design, they are
intended to burn rapidly and vigorously when ignited.
Ignition occurs when the powder granules are heated above their
ignition temperature. This can occur by exposing the powder to:
1. A flame such as a match or a primer flash.
2. An electrical spark or the sparks from welding, grinding, etc.
3. Heat from an electric hot plate or a fire directed against or near
a closed container even if the powder itself is not exposed to
the flame.
Smokeless powder does not detonate like high explosives as it has
a controlled rate of burn and differs considerably in its burning char-
acteristics from common “black powder.” Black powder burns at
essentially the same rate out in the open (unconfined) as when in a
gun.
If burning smokeless powder is confined, gas pressure will rise and
eventually can cause the container to burst. Under such circum-
stances, the bursting of a strong container creates effects similar to
an explosion.
My neighbors have long known the truth just by the sound, but it looks like I'm about to be reclassified as a terrorist or, at the very least, someone in possession of something very dangerous.
I confess. My Gibson Les Paul is both covered with a nitrocellulose lacquer finish and also has an ebony fret board, the very stuff GovCo raided Gibson Guitar for twice.
"Honest, Judge, it was legal when I bought it."
an explosion and a detonation aren't the same, burn rate of a detonation is ~20,000fps and up
Probably get a similar reaction in a pool hall in certain neighborhoods even today.
Okay,
So then,,
If I were to,,
And the We
OH, FUG GET ABOUT it!
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada491715
---The most valuable research available is a comprehensive 1988 Canadian study which examined the results of seven independent tests (Appendix G). The research documents test results compiled from separate studies by six European countries and the United States. The most relevant of these is a Finish study that performed cap sensitivity tests involving both single and double-based propellants. The test was performed by placing one kilogram of propellant into a plastic bag and suspending it one meter above the ground. A detonator was placed in the center of the bag and initiated. The test results indicated 16 of the 32 powders tested detonated when initiated with a number 8 commercial detonator. Overall the Canadian study makes several important conclusions:
• Most propellants will detonate when suitably initiated by an explosive source.
• Propellants have a critical diameter and an ideal diameter as in the case of all explosives materials.
• The larger the quantity of smokeless propellants the greater the possibility for a high TNT equivalence."
The study consists of a series of tests shots using near identical charges and initiators. The test charge consists of a thin walled plastic bag filled with the sample propellant (Appendix H). Alliant Powder Bullseye brand double- base smokeless powder is the propellant test charge (Appendix I). The completed charge is placed atop a steel witness plate affixed with instrumentation to measure the velocity of detonation (Appendix J). An ICI aluminum shelled #8 electrical detonator is used to initiate each test shot. A photograph of a test charge prior to firing is shown in Appendix K. The test shots were fired sequentially and data was collected and documented. The O.R.A test report describes the data collection method and summarizes the tests results (Appendix L).
The test results document the occurrence of detonation in each of the four test shots. The highest velocity of detonation (VOD) was recorded at 25,641 fps and the lowest at 19,048 fps. The average VOD of all tests was measured at 21,282 fps. This is especially significant when compared to the known VOD of common high explosives and their TNT equivalency---
I am not proposing that smokeless powder's classification be changed from a propellant to an explosive. I am just identifying that smokeless powder can achieve high order detonation.
BATFE should be eliminated in its entirety.
Amen
Got a sample from Hercules (sp?) in the 70’s
for making pellicles.(optical film)
Don’t remenber if they mailed it or used UPS.
interesting, i'm curious if 1kg is kinda the sweet spot for a #8 to have enough brisance to produce a HOD or if using lets say 10kg or more if the burn rate would drop below 19,000fps so that the rest explodes instead of detonates
I have never heard of a transition of detonation to deflagration in explosives. I understand the opposite can occur though.
Once the detonation wave is traveling through the smokeless powder, I would expect that the entire mass would detonate.
Unless the quantity of smokeless powder is below its critical diameter, or the initiator/detonator is not powerful enough. And then the smokeless powder never achieves detonation.
However if the smokeless powder is strongly confined and of sufficient length then deflagration to detonation could occur.
i'm guess my point/wondering is, if the high speed wave from the detonator is what causes detonation and not the powder itself, meaning the farther away from the detonator the slower the wave, that's why i said maybe 1kg was a sweet spot, where more powder couldn't sustain the wave but i don't have the ability to calculate it
The entire mass of smokeless powder is not dependent upon the detonator's impulse, only the smokeless powder that was in close proximity to the detonator.
As Bullseye powder contains around 40% Nitroglycerine, I would expect once the powder was detonating, that additional powder would also detonate even if separated from the initial quantity some small distance away.
Similar to ditch blasting where the impulse from one charge propagates through the ground to the next charge, separated by a couple feet of earth.
>>> somewhat like a dust explosion. <<<<
You mean like a grain silo? OMG! Farmers produce explosives! All that “green energy” is a terrorists dream!
OK, i can accept that, thx
I’m confused,,
It’s legal as long as it was applied in Mexico.
Right you are sir. It is the very stuff once used to propel 16" battleship shells to strike freedom into what remained of the hearts of our enemies.
I actually know how to manufacture the stuff at home but am far too wise to do so. Damn unstable stuff during the manufacturing process without the right equipment. Oh, and the stuff you make it from is dangerous in its own right but fortunately not explosive.
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