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Kim Davis's Conscientious Decision
First Things ^ | 9-3-15 | R.R. Reno

Posted on 09/06/2015 4:20:07 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o

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To: Mr Ramsbotham

I read that book when in the 7th grade. I assumed that I was the last person to read that book. It was tedious. Overly dramatic.


21 posted on 09/06/2015 5:55:38 PM PDT by odawg
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You are incorrect. The SC did not declare the entire Kentucky state marriage law unconstitutional, only the section that defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman.


22 posted on 09/06/2015 7:20:31 PM PDT by JhawkAtty
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To: savedbygrace; Mrs. Don-o
I am not a lawyer, but in my opinion, you are 100% correct, Mrs. Don-o.

I am a lawyer and yes, she is 100% correct.

23 posted on 09/06/2015 8:25:00 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Tagline pending.)
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To: JhawkAtty; Mrs. Don-o; xzins; RitaOK
You are incorrect. The SC did not declare the entire Kentucky state marriage law unconstitutional, only the section that defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

Wrong. The Supreme Court did not rewrite Kentucky's statute to include homosexual marriages. It VOIDED Kentucky's statute.

The Definition of Marriage in Kentucky was the union of (1) MAN and (1) WOMAN. When the supreme Court said that was unconstitutional, it voided the very definition of "marriage." Therefore there is no such institution as "marriage" in Kentucky or any other state that defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

Where do you practice law? Do you understand statutory interpretation?

County Clerks work under statutory authority only. Where in the Kentucky Statute does it authorize any clerk to issue a marriage license to two men or two women or three women and four men?

Show me some statutory authority that permits Kim Davis to issue a marriage license to anyone right now.

24 posted on 09/06/2015 8:34:00 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Tagline pending.)
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To: JhawkAtty; Mrs. Don-o; xzins; Jim Robinson; wagglebee
You are incorrect. The SC did not declare the entire Kentucky state marriage law unconstitutional, only the section that defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

JhawkAtty
Since Sep 6, 2015

Newbie.

You signed up today to post that stupid interpretation of the law? And you claim to be an attorney? What, are you with the ACLU?

IBTZ

25 posted on 09/06/2015 8:39:12 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Tagline pending.)
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To: P-Marlowe

I am an attorney, but one doesn’t need to be to understand that the entire marriage statute wasn’t struck down. Here’s the actual holding: “The Constitution, however, does not permit the State to bar same couples from marriage”

I disagree with the opinion, but nowhere in it did the court say that the entire marriage statute was unconstitutional, that would be silly.

Have you actually read the opinion?


26 posted on 09/07/2015 1:25:35 AM PDT by JhawkAtty
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Could be great news - I’ve heard her lawyer is a good one and it would be nice for our side to hand one back to the tyrants that are called “judges”.


27 posted on 09/07/2015 3:36:42 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: P-Marlowe; Mrs. Don-o

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!


28 posted on 09/07/2015 5:18:55 AM PDT by savedbygrace (But God!)
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To: JhawkAtty
You may be right. I notice there is a difference of opinion among lawyers.

However, if they only found the "one-man-one-woman" part unconstitutional, nevertheless the KY legislature has not rewritten a new definition of marriage to the USCC's liking. (Nor can the USCC do this because it is a court, not a legislature, and cannot create positive legislation.) Therefore KY no longer has any definition of who is eligible to marry in the state of KY, and as a consequence I would say they cannot lawfully marry anybody.

29 posted on 09/07/2015 5:45:49 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stone cold sober, as a matter of fact.)
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To: P-Marlowe
#29 ?
30 posted on 09/07/2015 5:49:03 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Stone cold sober, as a matter of fact.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Anytime you have two lawyers, you will have two opinions. The number of opinions one will have is equal to the number of lawyers. Scientists can and will agree from time to time. Psychiatrists from time to time are in agreement, but never lawyers.
31 posted on 09/07/2015 5:54:15 AM PDT by sport
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To: JhawkAtty

Have you actually read the statutes in question? All of them?

The KY marriage statutes are heavily infused with hetero-normative language, such that the woman has to be the one that applies in writing or in person, among other things. The rules for issuing marriage licenses specify man and woman. The rules for solemnizing marriage specify man and woman.

SCOTUS stated that homosexual has to be treated the same as heterosexual when it comes to marriage. The only way to do this is to rewrite the statutes - a power that SCOTUS does not have for two very simple reasons:

1) They are a court, not a legislature. The concept of judicial review (itself extra-constitutional) allows courts to nullify laws the abridge the constitution, not rewrite them.

2) The laws are STATE laws, not federal.


32 posted on 09/07/2015 6:58:48 AM PDT by MortMan (The rule of law is now the law of rulings - Judicial, IRS, EPA...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; P-Marlowe

Keep in mind that the KY laws that define when a marriage license is issued also specifically identify the man and woman requirement.

If one voids the hetero-normative language in marriage related statutes, there is no statute left in Kentucky.

If someone wants to argue that anywhere the law says “man” or “woman” it now says “person”, then the court has been allowed to rewrite the law illegally.


33 posted on 09/07/2015 7:02:33 AM PDT by MortMan (The rule of law is now the law of rulings - Judicial, IRS, EPA...)
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To: JhawkAtty; Mrs. Don-o; xzins

Have you read the Kentucky Statute that gives the legal definition of marriage?

In your practice have you ever had to do research and appeals utilizing statutory interpretation?

The SCOTUS voided every state’s definition of marriage where the definition limited the institution to one man and one woman. In those states, such as Kentucky, there is no longer a working definition of the term. Hence the SCOTUS did not simply make it legal for same sex couples to marry, they ended the institution as a legal institution.

Now show me the valid statutory authority that authorizes Kim Davis, or any Kentucky clerk to issue any marriage license at all right now?

Tell me, under Kentucky law, what is the current statutory definition of marriage.


34 posted on 09/07/2015 7:24:29 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Tagline pending.)
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To: P-Marlowe; JhawkAtty; Mrs. Don-o; wagglebee

It is also important to note that Justice Roberts in his dissent specifically stated that the majority decision struck down the marriage laws of most states.

That is an assertion of fact, and to make such a factual assertion would lead to ridicule if it simply were not true.

I do not recall at any place hearing Roberts taken to task over that statement.


35 posted on 09/07/2015 7:36:40 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their Victory!)
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To: JhawkAtty; Mrs. Don-o; xzins
Have you actually read the opinion?

Have you read Kentucky's marriage Statutes?

Have you read Roberts' dissent?

I disagree with the opinion, but nowhere in it did the court say that the entire marriage statute was unconstitutional, that would be silly.

The entire idea that two men or two women can marry each other is silly. What the SCOTUS did was not only silly, IT WAS DISASTEROUS!

The SCOTUS did not think of the ramifications that overturning the very foundation of the institution of marriage before they did it.

Or maybe they did. Maybe their intention (and the intention of the Gaystapo) was to end the whole institution of marriage because it has a religious foundation.

36 posted on 09/07/2015 7:42:15 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Tagline pending.)
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To: P-Marlowe
Show me some statutory authority that permits Kim Davis to issue a marriage license to anyone right now.

If you read the Kentucky statutes regarding receiving a marriage license, one requirement is that the female has to be the one to apply for the license. Unless that law were to be re-written, no male homosexual couple could ever get a marriage license (although I suppose a lesbian couple could).

37 posted on 09/07/2015 7:44:04 AM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: xzins

Excellent point, xzins.


38 posted on 09/07/2015 7:54:54 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence bymeans of language.-Wittgenstein)
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To: sport

If there is only one lawyer in town he starves. If there are two, they prosper.


39 posted on 09/07/2015 7:56:46 AM PDT by Mycroft Holmes (The fool is always greater than the proof.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you, thank you. I have changed my mind on this. I did not realize that she was refusing to issue ALL marriage licenses because the term “marriage” has been eviscerated of any legal meaning. This clarifies things a lot for me. I think she did the right thing.


40 posted on 09/07/2015 7:57:44 AM PDT by cookcounty ("I was a Democrat until I learned to count" --Maine Gov. Paul LePage)
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