Posted on 08/20/2015 7:09:08 PM PDT by ExyZ
Trying to grasp a visual of this in my head, must of been quite a scene, you know there are pictures of this out there must go pretty high to keep them all buried.
This is my shocked face ===>
I found it mildly interesting when I learned that Renya was on scene on 5/17. Then it was reported that his office had prepared the cookie cutter PC affidavits that the one cop submitted.
And remember; this was a Sunday. They don’t pull lawyers, swat teams, 20 uniforms, etc. in on a Sunday for a ‘maybe’. They were sure there would be a problem by instigating it in the first place.
I wonder if entrapment, collusion to commit crime, or a number of other laws were broken by the person(s)responsible putting this together. Maybe even a RICO crime. Now wouldn’t that be the irony to end all ironies...
I think there are many who are shocked anyone cares about what happened that day because they are bikers. I hope one good thing comes from this and LE will think long and hard before trying this kind of thing again. Oh, and of course, every biker arrested wrongly gets at least a million bucks. I know I’m repeating myself here but it seems like money is the only thing corrupt people understand. That and losing their career. I would even like to see Reyna be brought up on charges before the Bar association for perverting the law.
“Sounds like a premeditated massacre. “
Yes. Both the Bandidos and the Cossacks put out the word to give a show of force in Waco.
That is why they were all arrested for conspiracy.
“Who knew What and When, sounds like they had their ducks (bikers) in a row before things went down.’
The bikers said the bikers started the shooting.
“every biker arrested wrongly gets at least a million bucks”
What about, the family of every biker killed or wounded files a civil suit for wrongful death (upping the ante over wrongful arrest however bad that in itself is), not only against the officials, but also against every biker by name who was a member of or affiliate of the Bandidos or Cossacks, and who logically rode to Waco as called upon to do so as as show of force for a predicted show-down while proudly wearing the support patch??
If wrongful arrest is worth a million, what is a wrongful death worth??
Let all civil suits proceed.
“If wrongful arrest is worth a million, what is a wrongful death worth??”
Wearing the wrong patch gets you a royal beating.
Dissing a ‘member’ gets you death.
Suing a ‘member’ gets you ________?
Damages in civil trials are roughly "compensatory," and vary greatly between plaintiffs. The life of a young person is worth more based on expected earnings over their remaining life, than the life of a "similarly situated" old person. The earning potential of a professional is greater than the earning potential of a laborer, and so on. Very little in the way of pain and suffering, given the mode of death.
In order to prevail, the plaintiff has to prove that the defendant's actions were a proximate cause of the death. This is relatively easy to show for the shooter, and considerably more difficult to show that "the reasonably foreseeable outcome" of riding to Twin Peaks is a proximate cause of a death.
Well at least the widows might also claim “loss of consort”.
As for “pain and suffering”: that of the widows, the parents, even the siblings is something that no dollar value can approach, over the years and decades that the suffering will continue.
And then there is “contributory negligence”. If the bikers rode to the call, contributing to the deaths, those who were killed also rode to the call . . . contributing to their own deaths. Such as Campbell, who left money to his ex-wife for his kids before he rode to Waco, apparently not expecting to come back; very tragic.
Can the families sue the Cossacks and Bandidos as entities, or the Confederation?
Yes, that's another element of damages in a wrongful death suit.
-- As for "pain and suffering": that of the widows, the parents, even the siblings is something that no dollar value can approach ... --
True that, no more than the law can restore sight to the blind, or reattach severed limbs. All a civil court is empowered to do is order a transfer of money from the wrongdoer to the victim. A dollar amount is eventually assigned.
-- Can the families sue the Cossacks and Bandidos as entities, or the Confederation? --
Sure, for what it's worth. There are a couple of difficulties, one of which is that the clubs have little to nothing in the way of assets. Companies are often sued for damages caused by their products, so there is nothing in principle that bars a suit against an identifiable organization. The "reasonably foreseeable outcome is death" angle requires proving a group intention to act.
One of the widows (Estate of Jesus Delgado Rodriguez) has sued Twin Peaks for negligence and gross negligence.
-- And then there is "contributory negligence". --
You can bet that defendant Twin Peaks will raise that affirmative defense in the Rodriguez case.
“Suing a ‘member’ gets you ________?”
So what does it take?
To bring down the Gangs?
One of those arrested said he would not ride with the Cossacks again — that is not what he “thought” he signed up for. Enough!: what happened at Waco between the Gangs is not what he wanted when he first decided to ride with them.
Enough is enough, he said; I say.
Recent rulings affirm that there was probable cause for arrest.
Will the (relatively) “innocent” Mom and Pop bikers from now on, eschew the Gangs?? Eschew the Bandido led Confederation? And IF not WHY not? If they get a pass this time despite perhaps culpable ignorance.
OK I will posit this. If they do not eschew patching to the Gangs in the future, how can they be mere innocent Mom and Pop bikers in the future? even if their relative innocuous misunderstanding of the criminal gang structure means they did not in this case have personal intent and culpability? I mean at Grand Jury or trial, because it seems the courts are indeed finding probable cause.
He was there....and quite possibly stirred the hornets nest.
I mean you've lied here before...why not lie again!!
“Estate of Jesus Delgado Rodriguez”
As far as any of us can tell with what we now know, he was the most innocent of those unnecessarily killed.
Sadly, our present “litigious society”, is what forces families of victims to file suit to obtain any semblance of justice. Those whose actions and decisions might have contributed to the death, cannot come out in human sympathy, for that would go against their legal advice, lest mere human outreach imply corporate guilt!
Maybe all the widow really needs is such human outreach and sympathy, and likely the only way she can get it, is to sue. OH. If you are wounded by an injustice, the only way you can obtain any justice no matter how limited, is to suffer more, and BTW pay for expert witness and attorney’s expenses! Been there, done that, and not sorry for the additional suffering and monetary expense, after all I did get an apology . . . after three years, some acknowledgment of “wrongful death.” It is not about the money.
I do not advocate going after one party because they have “deeper pockets”. I am not assuming that is what she is doing. She is bereaved and wants some acknowledgement that someone contributed to the death of her loved one.
If Twin Peaks went against police advice and hosted the event despite warning of trouble, she has grounds for her suit.
And if there are grounds for similar suits against the Cossacks, Bandidos, and the Confederation, I hope victims file such suits. Even if they do not have deep pockets. Maybe a suit or two could put an end to those nefarious organizations.
I do not doubt, were her case to go to trial, that “contributory negligence” and all manner of legal attacks against the dead biker and the family would be brought to bear, merely to limit the monetary damages. Sad. But that is where we are. Other than monetary damages, there is nothing the civil legal system can offer.
In reading your recent posts it almost sounds as if you now see an overreach by the LE on station and/or the powers that be who gave the order to put this all together that day in the manner they did.
It was clear LE was not there to prevent bloodshed. It is also clear they took advantage of a situation they could have prevented with the intel they claim to have known in advance.
Those who were in charge of the LE that day had foreknowledge and used it in a way unfitting someone who had that level of authority.
Do we agree?
“If they do not eschew patching to the Gangs in the future, how can they be mere innocent Mom and Pop bikers in the future?”
That same statement was just as applicable thirty years ago.
Me: “The bikers said the bikers started the shooting.”
You: “Were you there?”
No. Read it on the news sites.
“That same statement was just as applicable thirty years ago.”
Good point . . .
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