Posted on 09/06/2014 6:21:26 AM PDT by elhombrelibre
Invasion of a NATO ally (us) should get a few miles deep of Mexican border patrolled by our allies.
No, your being overly cute by introducing the word colony is what is funny.
Too cute by half, as they say.
I’m more handsome, than cute, but you’re wrong. Hairsplitting nonsense doesn’t make a point, it just works to score them. Perhaps you’re confusing the Soviet satellite states with former parts of the Soviet Union.
I have never heard anyone using the word colonies in describing Soviet occupied countries that they invaded in WWII.
Did Reagan use that language, does anyone? I don’t recall ever hearing it when I was a part of NATO during the 80s, or during the 60s, or 70s,90s, the 2000s, or ever, or seeing it in print.
Well, there you have it.
“We don’t think that the same scenario can be re-enacted in Estonia... because we take the fact that we are NATO members really very seriously,” she said.
It remains to be seen how seriously NATO takes its commitment to new members.
Revitalized? Obozo gave a speech and some people agreed to do stuff of not so very great importance and its revitalized?
The target is really NATO itself. Putin wants to discredit NATO and hopes that if he can get away with one crime, it will lead to bigger and bigger crimes we will let slide. Unfortunately, I suspect that is exactly our future.
Do these folks really need any help looking foolish?
What would you like NATO to do about this specific incident. It would be good to see more than a strongly worded statement. But what action can NATO take?
We can start arming Ukraine with the weapons they need to fight off Russian armor, and tell the Russkies to drop dead when they complain.
Well I was asking for a response for Estonia.
That IS the response for Estonia. Mind you, I'm open to other things to add to it.
What kind of weapons? Do the Ukrainians have a shortage of rifles or ammo? If heavier weapons, the obvious Russian response is to shell them across the border or supply rockets.
Divide and conquer. Putin is trying to divide NATO.
Of course the French did that when invaded Iraq and we also never got a NATO like “submission” from Afghanistan.
What makes them arabs more special than Germans or Turks who are part of the mandate?
Keep in mind I am no military general here. Probably best to leave this sort of thing to a military expert, preferably one with man-parts, which our current leaders lack. But here are my observations, taken from my limited knowledge of military affairs:
The Russkies were already shelling from the border when the Ukrainians were taking back Donetsk and Luhansk. There are videos from local Russians, Russian soldiers on their social pages, and sattelite photos showing this occurring all throughout. Yet the Ukrainians had captured 85 percent of their former territory back, and were on the verge of making it 100 percent. The "separatists" were already fleeing. This did not change until Russia began a surge of tanks and troops into Ukraine, which is where we are today.
The Ukrainians need to be resupplied and prepared to face an all out war with Russia, perhaps with the sort of weapons that will be useful for a guerilla war in taking out tanks and the like if the Russkies occupy entirely.
Thanks for admitting your lack of military experience, same as myself. But I read history and I suggest you do that same and figure out how defeating a large and well-armed neighbor would work from our long distance. I would be very surprised if it doesn't involve ethnic cleansing of the Russians from eastern Ukraine. The Muslims would be happy to perform that service unfortunately.
In short your plan will probably result in a long stalemate or blowback if it actually works. That's why I asked about Estonia because that is much simpler. Since Russia attacked a NATO country, NATO should retaliate for that attack. That kind of retaliation can be properly assigned to the military unlike your proposal for guerrilla war which is more political.
I think you are underestimating the Ukrainians. I would not place upon them the label of "fanatic," but, if there is one good thing that has occurred because of this, it is that, number one, the West is starting to wake up to the threat from Russia (but we still need to wake up to China next). Secondly, that the Ukrainians have become a united, awoken, and patriotic people. Well, maybe more awoken and patriotic than united.
The Ukrainian soldiers are fighting like devils against the Russkie scumbags, and the only problem they're having right now is literally that they're running out of weapons. There are Ukrainian soldiers right now who have to buy their own supplies, because the Ukrainian military is so goofed up that they cannot provide this themselves. Yet, this same army has been killing Russkies hundreds at a time.
The Ukrainian patriot is willing to die for his country, and that's what earns him our help, where other countries have not.
I would be very surprised if it doesn't involve ethnic cleansing of the Russians from eastern Ukraine. The Muslims would be happy to perform that service unfortunately.
The Russkies are not too far removed from Muslims most of the time, rioting due to damaging a Soviet monument or the like. Deporting them back to Russia where they can live in the slavery they like wouldn't be too bad, though not politically correct. However, this is not really as big an issue as it seems in Ukraine. Polls, such as Pew, have found that separatist support within Ukraine was a minority, even amongst the ethnic Russians. This is why Girkin even kept publicly complaining that not enough locals were doing anything to support their war effort. A lot of the locals are perfectly aware what Russia is doing to them, even despite the best efforts of the separatists to murder them and blame it on the Ukrainians.
This is not a civil war at all, but is an invasion from Russia. The issue is resolved once the last "separatist" GRU agent is shot in the head or flees with his tail between his legs back to Russia. At that point, the Russkies will have to invade outright, and let's see how they justify that.
Since Russia attacked a NATO country, NATO should retaliate for that attack. That kind of retaliation can be properly assigned to the military unlike your proposal for guerrilla war which is more political.
This is starting a direct war between Russia and NATO. I'm all for it, since it's going to happen sooner or later, but would rather it be on better terms. Killing Russkies in Ukraine is better than killing Russkies in Estonia which has no military to speak of.
You need to set aside the Ukrainian propaganda for a minute. If the Russians wanted to kill 100's of Ukrainians at a time, they could do that in a heartbeat. Ukrainians who buy their own weapons are not soldiers but irregulars starting a civil war.
Deporting them back to Russia where they can live in the slavery they like wouldn't be too bad, though not politically correct
Where they would arm and train and come back in 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, or 50 years and start over. The only way to stop that is to weaken Russia itself.
This is not a civil war at all, but is an invasion from Russia.
That is true, but your Ukrainian irregular strategy is to turn it into a civil war. An invasion from Russia would mainly have to be stopped in Russia by taking out artillery in Russia, etc.
This is starting a direct war between Russia and NATO. I'm all for it, since it's going to happen sooner or later, but would rather it be on better terms. Killing Russkies in Ukraine is better than killing Russkies in Estonia which has no military to speak of.
You really need to take a course in military tactics or something. The attack in Estonia was from Russia although that is not entirely clear. The counterattack must be against Russian military targets, probably in Russia that supported that attack. Estonia's military is NATO which either works or it doesn't We are not going to defeat or weaken Russia in any way by arming a bunch of untrained Estonians and let them loose. But that seems to be your entire strategy in Ukraine. If we did that, and Russia wanted to, they would make mincemeat out of most of them in short order.
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