Politico is right: Gay marriage will destroy the Republican Party

Some poster here, Freeper here once wrote that once the Supreme Court struck down “sodomy laws” back in the ‘70s, it would seem to eventually allow something like homosexual marriage to happen. I think that is right.

“Gay marriage” is satanic.

Honestly, this issue was lost a long time ago. When a union before God had to be sanctioned and subsidized by government this result was inevitable. It was only a matter of time before the those who sought another agenda would come to power and use the power of the government to push their agenda. .

Without the official stamp of government on marriage, where would the gay agenda be? What would they have to complain about?

This is a perfect example for limited government.

“.....candidates should say it’s a states’ issue.”

But it’s not. Every state that’s voted on “gay marriage” has voted against it. It’s then taken to the courts where a judge decides any law against “gay marriage” is “unconstitutional.” Then the pressure is put on voters to say, OK, so “gay marriage” is all right after all.

Unfortunately, I think Washington State broke the pattern of every state where a public vote was held, voted against Gay Marriage. I don’t know if they are the only one.

However, Iowa and so on, it was made legal by judges or legislatures as in NY State.

NOMBlog came out and said we shouldn’t act like losing this struggle is a foregone conclusion and I agree. Fight it always. I think there would be quite an uproar if this was forced on the nation as law of the land. But I could well be wrong and I tend to be an optimist. I’m not sure the battle is lost.

Arkansas State Supreme Court suspended a Federal Judge’s decision to make gay marriage the law in that state.

Politico wants us to believe the tide of history is inevitable

That's the sort of thinking that led to the fall of Rome. Abandoning something fundamental to civilization because someone created a catchy marketing slogan is certainly an act of cowardice.

Did you see what happened to those judges in iowa that upheld gay marriage? The people fired their bent asses.

Relevant to your observation, here is a post which I filed in February 2012: I am ambivalent about gay marriage.

First, I am acutely sensitive to the maintenance of the family because I have a hobby horse which I ride ceaselessly on these threads: the left is attacking every institution which holds our society together and which holds back the advance of socialism/communism/statism. The attacks on the family were fashioned originally by The Frankfurt School which delivered a 1-2 punch, attacking the family and destroying the father's role as an authority figure within the family. That means That The Frankfurt School and its misbegotten spawn have long aimed to destroy the institution of marriage.

Therefore, I am reflexively hostile to any threat to the institution of marriage because I see it as part of the crimes of cultural marxism arising out of The Frankfurt School. If I am to err, let it always be on the side defending the world against The Frankfurt School.

Let me clear away some of the underbrush. There has been much equating of abortion and homosexual marriage. The objection to abortion is profound and it need not be grounded in religion. Abortion is the killing of a human being not yet born and as such it is indefensible. Moreover, the practice involves the infliction of harm on an innocent victim who in this case cannot defend himself. That certainly is not true of adult homosexuals desirous of entering into a marriage. There cannot be said to be a victim. To the degree that opponents of homosexual marriage are seen to be invoking the law to impose their objections to private conduct, without a victim, the political party which supports them will not be supported by an increasing number of Americans. To the degree that the opponents of homosexual marriage are seen to be invoking the law to punish activity done in private which subjectively makes them squirm, the political party which supports them will not be supported by an increasing number of Americans.

The Question for me becomes, does the very fact of the law sanctioning marriage between couples of the same sex inevitably undermine the institution of marriage between heterosexual couples? I know that the social conservatives are emphatic in holding that the institution of heterosexual marriage will be mortally compromised. But I have never understood exactly why this should be so. I think the belief is that sodomy is such a grotesquerie that to equate it with the God ordained sacrament is to defile marriage. To sanctify sodomy with a solemn and legal marriage certificate is an outrage which defiles marriage.

It seems to me that this reaction is a subjective one and that means that one man's subjective reaction is as valid as another man's. Some people are troubled by this and some people are not. I have trouble declaring that one reaction ought to be elevated in the law over the other.

There is also the problem that sodomy between consenting adults done in private has been awarded by the Supreme Court the status of constitutional protection. Therefore, no state may prohibit homosexual sex done by adults in private. Evidently, they have a constitutional right of privacy to bugger each other as much as they want.

Parenthetically, it is important to note that almost nobody objects to civil unions or civil contracts which give gays the right of inheritance, custody and visitation, hospital access, and burial rites etc. I am inclined to think that society ought to grant these rights to gays as a matter of course. On the other hand, conservatives rightly reject the notion that someone can declare himself married and thereby obtain benefits from the government to which he would not otherwise be entitled. I am very much in sympathy with this position. Hence one source of my ambivalence.

So opponents of homosexual marriage are being forced onto an ever narrowing land bridge. On one hand the activity sanctified by marriage, homosexual sex, has already been sanctified by the Supreme Court and is therefore perfectly legal. On the other hand the majority of Americans agree that virtually all the benefits of marriage should be accorded homosexuals by virtue of their choosing to enter into a civil contract. So the narrow land bridge says that homosexuals can do everything else married couples can do except go through a ceremony which is acknowledged by the state. The problem with this remaining remnant of dry land from which to object to homosexual marriage is that homosexuals can easily find some church which will conduct the ceremony. So opponents of homosexual marriage are reduced to maintaining the hollow position that the church ceremony, which practically can be done at will, may not be acknowledged by the state.

As the ground under the feet of those who object to homosexual marriage continues to erode, it is becoming clearer that they are on the wrong side of history. That is not necessarily a good thing. Not a good thing for our society and, unfortunately, not a good thing for the conservative movement.

There is an argument which weighs on behalf of the opponents of gay marriage. The historical fact is that marriage is and always has been inextricably bound up in religion and it is a deep tradition in our culture that marriage is done according to the precepts of our Judeo Christian heritage. Clearly, homosexual marriage is explicitly and provocatively contrary to those faiths. Religion has given birth to the concept of marriage and as such it has a claim on the concept. It is a claim that says if you want a make a marriage you must do it according to our precepts, if you want to behave contrary to our precepts you must call it something else: a "civil union" would be a good name.

This argument says that it is important to protect the sanctity of marriage from degrading it by associating it with sodomy. I am sympathetic to this view because as I stated at the beginning, if you destroy the family you have gone a long way toward destroying any resistance to the kind of society people like Barak Obama would like to impose on us.

But I am not so sympathetic as to go to the wall to protect the institution of marriage from a threat which I see to be attenuated and probably inevitable when to do might compromise other important precepts of conservatism resulting in the very real sacrifice of real victims- like unborn babies.

Surrendering is never a winning strategy

If you can stand it here is another post from 2010, this one rather long, which talks about homosexual marriage and liberty:

The idea of racism has been institutionalized in our culture as something that is repugnant and utterly hateful. So it is not surprising that proponents of homosexual rights including homosexual marriage invoke the civil rights struggle at least by way of analogy. But these analogies are not the sole property of the homosexual side of the argument. The president of the National Organization for Marriage, sees a distinct danger to liberty from equating sexual preference with race, Maggie Gallagher has observed,

“Once the law endorses this principle, traditional religious communities are going to be treated like racists if we act on and promote our countercultural view [that] there’s something special about unions of husband and wife. Ocean Grove is the tip of a very large iceberg. Take it seriously.”

Evidently, Maggie Gallagher knew what she was talking about because she was an original proponent of California’s Proposition Eight which the court has just struck down.

Why should the law have an interest in whether private enterprise provides separate but equal services to homosexuals? The answer is because the homosexual lobby has succeeded in writing statutes which prohibit discrimination against homosexuals. This sounds reasonable on its face, after all we prohibit discrimination based on sex, age, religion, ethnicity and race.

The rationale for these laws is that the discrimination is irrational as well as harmful. It is irrational because it assumes that every member of a class always behaves in a manner consistent with the stereotype of that class. Thus, if we fail to hire members of a given race because we think those people are shiftless, feckless, or dangerous, we might be right in our judgment as far as a statistical majority of that race is concerned. But the stereotype will never apply to 100% of the individuals in the race. There will always be individuals who break free of the stereotype, just as I intend someday to prove on the dance floor.

So from a sociologist’s or a statistician’s point of view, discrimination based on race is irrational. But it might not be irrational from a business point of view. If, for example, an employer believes that one race that is statistically more prone to crime than another, an easy way to eliminate a source of employee crime is to avoid hiring individuals of that race. It’s a very cheap screening process which, although not perfect, reduces risk at no apparent cost to the employer except perhaps in missed opportunity costs because he passed over a superior individual who performs counter to the stereotype. There may be other very rational reasons for employers to commit racial discrimination such as customer acceptance, and co-employee acceptance, to name a couple. But the law prohibits this kind of discrimination.

The law prohibits it ostensibly because politicians have calculated that the harm done to the individuals so stereotyped, whether rightly or wrongly, far outweighs any advantage devolving to employers who practice discrimination. This is a judgment call, a value call, made by politicians and imposed on society. The politicians have said: we arrogate unto ourselves the sole right to make this judgment and forbid you from making this very same judgment on penalty of criminal sanctions. We do not care whether your business sense tells you it is rational for you to discriminate based on race, we tell you that the societal cost is too high; our value trumps your value; nor do we care that we are depriving you of liberty when we deprive you of the right or power to discriminate; as a matter of fact, politicians will routinely say that there is no liberty to discriminate based on race because the act is so heinous. Again, this is a value judgment. When the emotion is wrung out of the issue, we must concede that the liberty of the employer is sacrificed to accommodate a more favored value.

Interestingly, the law permits one to discriminate based on race in the choice of a spouse. Evidently, society considers it a higher value to respect the liberty of the bigots who refuse an offer of marriage based solely on race than to require them to marry. On the other hand, the law has said that society may not prohibit miscegenation and must respect the liberty of people to marry who decline to discriminate against a suitor based on race. Not too many years ago the failure to discriminate was considered criminal by some jurisdictions. (Anti-miscegenation statutes overturned by the Supreme Court in Loving V. Virginia, 1967). So that which the employer may not do is absolutely ok for the lover to do, in fact, society may not interfere with the lover bent on doing that which is criminal if done by an employer. Clearly, the idea of legally prohibiting discrimination is a moving target as values shift up and down the scale depending on the circumstances and the ebb and flow of political correctness.

So I have lost my liberty as an employer to discriminate on the basis of race but in nearly the same time frame I have gained liberty to marry without being forced to discriminate on the basis of race. I have also retained a liberty to decline to marry because I choose to discriminate on the basis of race.

Well, this is certainly going to get complicated. First, it is not clear whether or not the law compels me to discriminate on the basis of sex when I marry. It has recently become more clear by virtue of the Supreme Court case Lawrence v. Texas (2003) that I have liberty to discriminate on the basis of sex about whom I might choose to (yuck) sodomize. In other words, the state cannot prohibit me from sodomizing someone of the same sex providing I do it in private (the old “don’t frighten the horses” test). So in the ever cascading values game, I am at liberty to sodomize whom I please but in about 48 jurisdictions at my last count I am not at liberty to decline to discriminate in marriage against persons of my own gender. The law compels me to discriminate against them if I want to marry them but not if I just want to bugger them.

Evidently, the Supreme Court permits buggery in private because it places a high value in the right of privacy. The Supreme Court so far has not chosen to invalidate laws against homosexual marriage, presumably because it does not value the right of homosexual marriage as highly as it does the right to bugger in private.

But fixing on privacy as the key to understanding these distinctions comes a cropper if I try to invoke the doctrine to permit me to bugger either sex when the objects of my attention are underage. Apparently, the need to protect the underaged from my perversity is greater than the interest society has in safeguarding my right to sodomize in private.

In some places state law apparently has no interest if I choose to bugger a horse or even if I choose to be buggered by a horse. Other states are gravely concerned about my equine perversities, although it is not clear whether they are more concerned to protect me or the horse. It seems we can’t get away from legislators’ preoccupation about frightening the horses.

Opponents of gay marriage have invoked the slippery slope argument saying that to permit me to marry my beloved (human) of the same sex opens the floodgates and would permit me to engage my sordid proclivities to engage in bestiality, polygamy and incest. Practices from which I am presently barred in most jurisdictions even if I am discreet enough to do it only in private. Slippery slope arguments rarely carry the day because it is human nature to worry about tomorrow’s problem tomorrow.

But let’s turn the slippery slope argument around. When one moves control over homosexual marriage from the state to the federal justice system and one applies a federal constitutional rather than state legislative standard, one in effect is elevating a new interpretation of the federal Constitution over the plain and expressed will of the people of the state, in this case California. From time immemorial, the memory of man runneth not to the contrary, it has been the will of the people which has decided these issues. If one disenfranchises the state from prohibiting gay marriage because one has found a federal constitutional right to gay marriage, one has effectively eliminated the expressed democratic desire of the people to determine these matters. It says in effect that there is no rational basis to let the people decide the matter, it says there is a higher value, a federal constitutional value which incidentally we judges have just discovered, which trumps the democratic will.

So the slippery slope argument is not just a broadside which says if you permit gay marriage you cannot in reason prohibit polygamy, it is an argument which says that you have taken away the constitutional and legal foundation which from time immemorial vouchsafes the power and the responsibility to the people to regulate these matters to their satisfaction. If there is no rational justification for prohibiting gay marriage, as the District Court judge has found, it can no longer be a matter of legal logic to say that the people have retained their power to prohibit polygamy.

It becomes a matter of political correctness exercised from the federal level. If there is no rational basis to prohibit me from marrying my male friend, there is equally no rational basis from prohibiting me from marrying my male cousin, or, two or three of my male cousins, or my female cousins. Or, if you’re concerned about DNA implications, there is no rational basis to prohibit me from marrying several of my male and female friends who are not related to me.

The law has put itself in the place where the judges insist that a newly found federal constitutional right to gay marriage is enough to overcome the will of the people concerning marriage but since we, the very same judges, have not discovered a concomitant federal constitutional right to commit polygamy, we shall suffer the will of the people on that issue to continue to prevail, at least until we discover that right - which might occur any day now.

The point of all this is not just to demonstrate that the law weighs one value against another and almost always prefers one value over another. The point is that to prefer one value over another is another way of saying that someone just got deprived of liberty. It is important that we do not let leftists change the subject. It may be perfectly good to deprive bigots of the right to discriminate but let not our indignation over discrimination based on race becloud our understanding that we are sacrificing liberty for some other value which might be very important to the person deprived. This can become significant when one takes the next step and deprives an innocent person who has not engaged in discrimination of equal opportunity to obtain jobs or academic placement. Liberals get away with depriving these innocents of the equal protection of laws because they have succeeded in shutting off the idea of liberty and the need always to preserve it.

It is not really fashionable today to talk about liberty. In fact, we have come to the place where it is politically incorrect to talk about liberty in the wrong context. When one considers, as I have tried to do, that political correctness can make for bad law it is almost impossible to describe the situation without being politically incorrect.

I don’t believe it’s down to the “persuasive” argument. The Founding Fathers knew of the struggle to maintain morality right from the start of the USA, after all.

The Politico writer may well be correct in his assessment for the GOP. But, my feeling is - So What? Wrong is wrong. If you believe homosexual “marriage” is wrong have the guts to say so.

If the people won’t vote you in because of your view, so be it. The sin is upon them. At least you tried to do the right thing.

I’ve seen the view expressed that, “we lost this issue long ago when we allowed the government to ‘sanction’ marriages”. I’ve also seen the view that social conservatives “lost the argument” because it was difficult to demonstrate the harm that homosexual marriage might have on society.

I find those extremely hard to accept.

At one time our nation had a commonly held general view of right and wrong based on Judeo-Christian Biblical morality. That didn’t mean that all Americans were professing Christians or even believers in God, but still there was, in general, a common view that there were moral absolutes. Homosexuality was roundly condemned as not only against God’s moral law, but was also viewed as sick, perverted, and a danger to moral society. This view was expressed in our local, state, and national governments.

The “harm” to society was obvious to most people in our country (not that long ago). The immediate harm to society is moral and spiritual decay. If sex between two men or two women can be seen as “normal”, then ultimately sex between anything can be seen as normal. It’s only a matter of time.

The “harm” to society for heterosexual sex outside of marriage was at one time recognized pretty much by all Americans. Again, the harm is in the normalizing of an act that is described as sin in the Bible. All this was recognized by most Americans in and out of government.

So, when local government required people to get a marriage license and be married by a judge or a duly recognized minister or rabbi - no one in their most horrific nightmare could dream that one day homosexual marriages would ever be an issue.

Of course, the problem today is that there is very little common ground anymore among many Americans as to what Right and Wrong are, let alone what constitutes “sin” anymore.

There is physical harm in acts with violate God’s moral laws - children out of wedlock, increase in poverty, crime, venereal diseases, AIDS, breakdown of the family structure. But, the overriding problem is that acceptance of immorality leads to more and greater lawlessness and immorality. What was once shocking now only elicits a chuckle or worse, nothing at all. Just think back to the sitcoms of the 1950’s and 1960’s - Father Knows Best, Andy Griffith, Hogan’s Heroes, etc. The humor in those shows was nothing like the “humor” in sitcoms today.

The controversy of Rhet Butler’s character using the “D” word in Gone with the Wind, wouldn’t even cause an eyeblink today.

Of course, it’s difficult to argue from a moral standpoint when there is no commonly held view on morality, and, when immorality on every level is seen as “normal”.

Our nation’s greatest problem is spiritual. Yes, vote and do what you can to change people’s minds, but ultimately, the underlying problem for our country is a problem of the soul.

Pray. Live a genuine Christian life (as opposed to a hypocritical life). Tell the truth of God in as gracious a way as possible, but tell it, don’t hide it. That’s all anyone can do. Love your family. Raise your children with Godly teaching and principles. Love your grandchildren and guide them with Godly principles and truth as well. Show the same to your neighbors and friends.

Be a preper (food, water, weapons, ammo, etc.), but understand that faith in God, no matter what the future holds, is the only sure foundation. God’s Kingdom goes on whether there will continue to be a United States of America or not. I pray our country will not only survive, but flourish once again as a nation “under God”, but even if it doesn’t, God is still there. His rule is forever. Nothing Obama or Clinton or the democrats or the GOPe can do or will do will change that.

Do the right thing. Stand for the truth.

Facts are not a popularity contest.

The best thing the GOP could do would be to ignore gay marriage. Like it, ot not, its pretty much out of their control. When forced, candidates should say it’s a states’ issue

Which state tells the federal government whether it allows gay marriage in the military, for the millions of federal employees and in immigration, and in international affairs and UN votes and foreign aid?

This is an issue that we need to know how every candidate will vote and fight for, at all levels of political office.

Hell, let ‘em marry. Who gives a crap? They will still do the gay sex thing regardless. As a born-again Christian, I don’t believe in same-sex marriage nor am I for heterosexuals shacking up out of wedlock. So.... let the good times roll.

Oh right, they would much rather risk being sniveling cowards who thumb their noses at God. I’m not talking about the godless. They’ll do whatever they do. It was the Christians in Germany who may have disagreed with Hitler but stayed quiet because they didn’t want to rock the boat. I see the same thing happening right here.

I think you have it partially right. Homophilic advocates view it as an important issue. They represent a small percentage of the population. GENUINE conservatives - who can make or break an election for the GOP view it as important and oppose it.

But clearly, many of the mainstream religions have feloniously conspired with the advocates of unisex marriage, pushing the issue instead of opposing it.

DEFINE MARRIAGE AS OTHER THAN BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN AND YOU ARE OPENING THE GATES TO ISLAMIC POLYGAMY WHICH IS PERHAPS WHERE HOMOSEXUAL ADVOCATES ARE GOING WITH THIS.

Few actually give a shit?

Sorry buddy but you are dead wrong

Maybe where you live....certainly not here

Or the South