Russian Strategic Bombers On West Coast: Did They Take Down LAX Traffic Control Systems?

SHTFplan.com ^ | 5/6/14 | Mac Slavo

[Rockpile]

Ships and fishing boats have GPS too. Would they not also be affected?

[Tzfat]

There is NO WAY that multiple aircraft losing GPS signal simultaneously would not trigger grounding of aircraft, initiated by crews, companies, and FAA.

In case you missed it, that is what the thread is about. LA Center, and SoCal Approach were shut down for hours. No flights in or out. Normally, when that happens all other ATC facilities are notified as to the reason why. Several hours later, Atlanta Center was still asking aircraft that originated in LAX what happened. Very odd.

You are welcome to be a skeptic if you like. My guess is that you don't even know what present position updated by multimode receiver processed by dual FMGCs and displayed on a dual ND means. But if you ask an Airbus pilot he/she will know exactly what it means. That makes me the expert, and you... well, not.

[Tzfat]

Perhaps it was only those in relatively close proximity to the jamming? That means that most likely it was airborne, because that is what presumably prompted SoCal Approach to shut down traffic - reports from airborne aircraft at altitude.

[steve86]

I have a six-month old Garmin Dakota 20 and was just starting to enter (on Wednesday) waypoints for some trails I will be riding this coming summer. Much to my surprise, I turn it on and it shows my location as Sevastopol, Crimea. I obviously don’t have the detailed map for that area just the base map but the location cursor was dead on Sevastopol. I thought: Well isn’t that odd. I have had GPSs show different locations in the U.S. before getting a lock but never overseas. I then fiddled with it a while and turned it off and on and the location came back correct after reboot (Washington State; Following the Russian plane flight path?). It sure looks like some location spoofing was going on in retrospect. Wish I would have checked my Android phone or another GPS at the same time.

[CodeToad]

I would image they would be. All kinds of commercial and civilian uses of GPS would be interrupted.

[CodeToad]

“:That makes me the expert, and you... well, not. “

You’d be an idiot to think there are no Airbus pilots on this board...or people that also built those systems...or command and control the GPS satellites. This board is loaded with experts.

[Tzfat]

You’d be an idiot to think there are no Airbus pilots on this board.

Only an idiot (OP) would say that a report by an airline captain about widespread GPS failures at altitude was "BS."

And you are correct - there is at least one Airbus pilot on this board: Me. 15 years on A320 family. 33 years as an airline pilot. 15 years as a check airman.

So, do you have an explanation for multiple flights on the same frequency with GPS failures? It was almost comical that everyone checking in on the frequency would call their altitude and then say, "GPS are shut down." ATC was simply assigning headings. Our aircraft had ECAM messages ratcheting through the failures until it was determined that the GPS was causing it. We kept Class II through IRS and DME/DME updating.

[CodeToad]

“Me.”

Spoken like a narcissist. You really do write like one.

Just because a pilot experienced a GPS failure does not mean it was jamming by the Russians. How retarded to come to an unsubstantiated conclusion. Sad that an airline captain would do that. They should be better than that.

[Tzfat]

Just because a pilot experienced a GPS failure does not mean it was jamming by the Russians.

Pilots. No one said it was "Russians" that was the thread. I simply said that it was not a U2 confusing TCAS on SoCal Approach, and offered an event that did happen to multiple aircraft at the same time, on the same day, in the same location.

What a sad place FR would be if people only offered opinions on things they know nothing about... (oh, wait, never mind)

[CodeToad]

” the GPS jamming did damage as well.”

You said it like it was fact.

[Tzfat]

You said it like it was fact.

I said it like it happened. The GPS receivers we have on our aircraft are not like the cheap little receivers that are in every phone today. Ours almost never fail. Even if they did, they are redundant (we have 3 on the A320). The odds of a multiple failures of independent GPSs on a single airliner are nearly impossible. That multiple aircraft flying in the same general location all experience complete GPS failure says that it was caused by some sort of signal failure. At altitude, we can always see satellites.

So, multiple satellites failed at the same time, or jammed somehow. You pick.

We are trained to make reports. We do it every day for all manner of conditions and events. You obviously don't know any airline pilots if you think that responding to "sell your BS elsewhere" is narcissistic.

[Tzfat]

Don’t forget, their US ground-based military tracking systems tracking those Russian aircraft that could also result in the inadvertent jamming of GPS signals. Civilian GPS signals are fairly weak.

Spoken like "fact." The fact is that DOD is required by law not only to keep the GPS system operational, it is required by law to ensure that it is not interfered with. As for being "weak" - you must be using your $20 GPS chip to make that claim. I have never lost a GPS signal in an Airbus - anywhere in the world until now.

So, I am little confused. You claim from your own knowledge that "inadvertent jamming" could have occurred, but multiple reports of airliners losing GPS at the same time, could not have been jamming. Huh? You must always be correct.

[Tzfat]

A follow up to last month's occurrence. This happened to a number of flights again night before last. I was flying from the West Coast to the East Coast. Right after takeoff, we lost all 3 GPS. We asked ATC if other aircraft were experiencing the same thing, and were given affirmation.

I asked our airline's operational control center about it, and was told that it was the second day in a row, and the official response was "the government was doing some things." Then I was told, "it's jamming."

After 3 hours, we regained 2 GPS, but our 3rd never was restored, so it was possibly damaged.

[OwenKellogg]

That’s why you guys should never have gotten rid of navigators! (end minor rant from a former Air Force celestial navigator)

Back to your update... if this has happened a second time, there’s good reason for concern. Sounds like someone is testing some electronic warfare devices and probing for our response. We know the jamming can occur over land but can they do this over water? Was it isolated on the west coast or did it persist into the heartland? Did TCAS continue to operate normally? Did other navaids (TACAN, VOR) work normally?

[Tzfat]

Everything else worked normally. ATC told us that most flights were regaining GPS east of White Sands. We got 1 back there, the 2nd near OKC, and the third remained inop after landing. Our aircraft was continuing on to a Carribean destination, so they were looking at substituting another aircraft when I left work. I suspect the receiver was damaged.

[OwenKellogg]

Do you believe the official response: “the government was doing some things”?

Any unusual NOTAMs?

[musicman]

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[Tzfat]

No Notams that we were given, but generally, space Notams are only included for Oceanic flights, so who knows. Our operations control did not act like it was a Notam they were citing, merely a collective response to answer inquiries like ours. More telling, there were not surprised by our report, or the logbook entry when we arrived.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Russian Strategic Bombers On West Coast

OH NO! Bombing California?

All those poor liberals, Mexicans and child molesters!

(somebody do something)