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How Free Trade Is Killing Middle America
The American Conservative ^ | Jan. 24, 2014 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 01/24/2014 6:36:50 AM PST by 1rudeboy

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To: Mad Dawgg
And finally the super Duper extra special bonus question: "Are you really going to try and continue to tell us that Private Sector Unions have no bearing on our economic problems in the USA?

I would argue that 10% of anything cannot have a huge affect. It is like the Smoot Hawley lie. Smoot Hawley is the poster child of Free Trade. Well it didn't have much of an impact at all Why? because trade was only 5% of GDP, so it mathematically could not have a huge impact. We made our own stuff back in the 1930's the country hadn't bought into the gloBULLism that today's America has fallen for.

81 posted on 01/24/2014 9:13:38 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Mad Dawgg
"My position is to stop the Government intervention into the market that caused this crap in the first place."

You're talking of course about the lowering of the trade tariffs in the 1960's. That was the government intervention that caused this.

Raising the import tariffs by 10% would fund a $1500 per worker individual income tax cut. Of course you could use the funds to cut corporate taxes if you prefer. That would be a lot more money in American citizens hands to spend in the local economy.

Thanks to the lowered tariff, we now tax domestic producers much higher than we tax foreign producers. Talk about your "hostile environments".

82 posted on 01/24/2014 9:15:35 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: Mad Dawgg
"My position is to stop the Government intervention into the market that caused this crap in the first place."

You're talking of course about the lowering of the trade tariffs in the 1960's. That was the government intervention that caused this.

Raising the import tariffs by 10% would fund a $1500 per worker individual income tax cut. Of course you could use the funds to cut corporate taxes if you prefer. That would be a lot more money in American citizens hands to spend in the local economy.

Thanks to the lowered tariff, we now tax domestic producers much higher than we tax foreign producers. Talk about your "hostile environments".

83 posted on 01/24/2014 9:15:35 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: DannyTN

Export Dollars + import poverty = Free Trade


84 posted on 01/24/2014 9:16:01 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
"On average how man man hours of labor does it take to make a car? (industry average)

i notice you didn't want to dwell on post 72 and instead are now trying to deflect.

OK then better question: How many Gub'ment bailout tax payer dollars went to each of auto union workers in the GM and Chrysler?

And Remember that money was used to save union jobs!

85 posted on 01/24/2014 9:17:14 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: headstamp 2

Re: http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2014/01/24/the-us-chamber-of-commerce-versus-america/?subscriber=1

Thanks.. Good link !


86 posted on 01/24/2014 9:18:32 AM PST by khelus
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To: central_va
"I would argue that 10% of anything cannot have a huge affect."

you would argue that but then when you consider the multi-billion dollar taxpayer funded bailout of the auto industry to and I quote "save union jobs" you would look silly doing so.

87 posted on 01/24/2014 9:19:13 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: central_va
"Smoot Hawley"

If 'free trade' existed then our factories and know-how would have been exported to Germany, Japan and China and we would have lost WW II. Thanks to protectionism we won WW II.

88 posted on 01/24/2014 9:20:09 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: Count of Monte Fisto
The purpose of 'Free Trade' has always been to destroy the American Middle-class.

Absolutely. Marx favored free trade as a tool to put the middle class in its place.
89 posted on 01/24/2014 9:20:36 AM PST by khelus
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To: Count of Monte Fisto
Free Trade shouldn't be on trial here. The problem is real Free Trade versus Kool-Aid drinking Free Trade.

Real Free Trade has been practiced successfully for centuries on a bilateral or multilateral basis. It is trade between equal or nearly partners. Canada trading wood pulp to the United States for paper goods. Chile sending grapes to the United States in January and the United States sending grapes to Chile in July. Japan sending us automobiles and we sending them wheat.

The old British Commonwealth of Nations, Benelux, the European Community, and others were all highly successful examples of mutually beneficial free trade.

Like every other institution, the left and the crony capitalist GOP perverted it into Kool-Aid drinking free trade.

Mexico, which lacks basic sanitary standards, has no business being an equal trading partner with the United States, which requires them. China, where pollution and worker abuse are a way of doing business, has no business being treated as an equal trading partner like Japan, which has similar or even more stringent standards that the United States in these matters. Greece, where fiscal irresponsibility is the norm, has no business being treated the same as highly efficient Germany. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Free trade associations are only successful when practiced between member states with similar standards and values. Allowing an outsider into the group before they meet such standards is not going to make them magically adopt them, but it will make the collective weaker by adding more free riders.

90 posted on 01/24/2014 9:22:33 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Tennessee Nana
In 2007-08 Willard was urging trade with China and insisting that China be given favorite nation status...

Here's a related piece of information that many are not aware of:

"China was admitted to the WTO after promising to accept its rules about free trade. But as the lawyers say when you end up disappointed by a contract, you should have read the fine print. The fine print in China's WTO agreement was in an attached document euphemistically labeled an "accession agreement," which gave China status as a "nonmarket economy" and spelled out thousands of details about special preferences for China"

China Celebrates Outwitting Us
91 posted on 01/24/2014 9:24:39 AM PST by khelus
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To: Usagi_yo
.........Now we should understand the saying: “A fish rots from the head down”."

Bravo !
92 posted on 01/24/2014 9:26:47 AM PST by khelus
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To: DannyTN
"You're talking of course about the lowering of the trade tariffs in the 1960's. That was the government intervention that caused this."

hahah of course I notice you gloss over the huge uptick in GPA after such happened and the fact that Government descended on manufacturing with more and more EPA and health and safety regs and more and more compliance red tape and the unions demanded more and more beneifts like huge retirement packages and Health insurance and the Big Three car manufacturers pooh poohed the idea that they were in the car making business but instead in the "money making" business.

You are akin to the geniuses during the polio scare who claimed polio was caused by Ice Cream because the cases reported increased significantly during the summer months when more Ice Cream was sold.

Oh and BTW that very sentiment you posted is straight out of the Union propaganda playbook!

93 posted on 01/24/2014 9:27:42 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mad Dawgg

I buy Ford.


94 posted on 01/24/2014 9:28:04 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: DannyTN; central_va
Unionista DannyTn said:"You could remove all US regulations and all US taxes and we still wouldn't be competitive against Chinese labor rates."

And Unionista central va: "Labor is just one component in manufacturing, one of the smallest too."

OK so which one of you is wrong?

95 posted on 01/24/2014 9:32:38 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: khelus

Perhaps it is time for a profit and loss statement of its costs and benefits. Undeniably, free trade has been a bonanza for the top 1 percent and many among our top 10 percent.

These are America’s winners from free trade. The losers? Middle Americans. The average U.S. family has not seen a rise in real wages in 40 years.


96 posted on 01/24/2014 9:38:06 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Mad Dawgg
Unionista DannyTn said:"You could remove all US regulations and all US taxes and we still wouldn't be competitive against Chinese labor rates." And Unionista central va: "Labor is just one component in manufacturing, one of the smallest too." OK so which one of you is wrong?

We are both right. Nothing could be done tax wise or regulation wise to compete with $.25/hr labor rates. My argument is that labor is such a small component of manufacturing cost using first world labor would increase cost but only a few cents on the dollar.. All of which would and could be offset by eliminating income taxes and reduced social spending. It would also a matter of national defense because I consider the industrial base the key to maintaining our freedom.

97 posted on 01/24/2014 9:42:30 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: dragnet2
"The average U.S. family has not seen a rise in real wages in 40 years."

And you think this is because of Free Trade?

98 posted on 01/24/2014 9:42:58 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: DannyTN
Is it my imagination or did 1rudeboy post an article critical of free trade to start this thread?

No, not your imagination at all. The implication that you would only post an article with which you agree is somewhat disturbing.

99 posted on 01/24/2014 9:45:36 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: CowboyJay
He was dead on the money in that regard. Where he went wrong was claiming that would be a good thing for society.

I wish you would tell that to those of us who are find of quoting Marx.

100 posted on 01/24/2014 9:48:09 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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