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How Free Trade Is Killing Middle America
The American Conservative ^ | Jan. 24, 2014 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 01/24/2014 6:36:50 AM PST by 1rudeboy

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To: DannyTN
If you raise tariffs by 10%, and you know imports are equivalent to 16% of our GNP, that's an average price increase of 1.6%.

So you think, while paying no attention to industries that rely (in part or in whole), upon imported inputs.

141 posted on 01/24/2014 11:18:00 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Beagle8U
A big chunk of those jobs were union, that is why so few Mfg jobs are union today. Those that didn’t go overseas went to Mexico or RTW states down south.

To the contrary union shops are a little harder to offshore because they have political connections. Non unions factories has no one looking out for them or America.

142 posted on 01/24/2014 11:18:14 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Beagle8U
Non unions factories has have ...

fixed.

143 posted on 01/24/2014 11:19:13 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
To the contrary union shops are a little harder to offshore because they have political connections.

Again, explaining why union "shops" have nearly ceased to exist in the U.S., except in the government.

144 posted on 01/24/2014 11:23:46 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: DannyTN
"And I'm not sure a 10% increase will be enough..."

Oh I can guarantee it. Once the congress critters get THAT particular bit between their teeth it will be Katie-bar-the door.

And of course none if your pie-in-the-sky tariff schemes deal with all the compliance costs of locating a manufacturing business here in the USA. Its why your $1.00 to $1.10 increases is so laughable.

You are all pretending that Obamcare and the EPA and OSHA and the Greenie movement and the Tort Lawyers won't have a huge impact on the issue.

You also pretend that the lobbyists won't riddle your tariff to the point it will be so complex all that will get done is it will make more lawyers rich as they constantly go to court over exemptions and rulings etc.

Now my question is are you really that naive or is it part of the unionista movement to point over there while ignoring whats over here?

145 posted on 01/24/2014 11:26:39 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: 1rudeboy
"So you think, while paying no attention to industries that rely (in part or in whole), upon imported inputs."

They are either in the GNP number or they are in the Import number. They are in the equation.

146 posted on 01/24/2014 11:26:45 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: 1rudeboy
"So you think, while paying no attention to industries that rely (in part or in whole), upon imported inputs."

They are either in the GNP number or they are in the Import number. They are in the equation.

147 posted on 01/24/2014 11:26:45 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: Mad Dawgg
Try reading every word this time. Total cost is what counts.

"The price of goods would increase but the price of government for the unemployed would do down. Pay me now or pay me later. No tariffs = lower product costs but labor costs are offloaded to the government which raises taxes. I go for tariffs. "

148 posted on 01/24/2014 11:29:01 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: DannyTN
To use the screwdriver example, you are incorrect. If you place a tariff on wood, plastic, processed or unprocessed steel, etc., then the increase in cost is passed-along to the purchaser of the screwdriver, and not just purchasers of wood, plastic, processed or unprocessed steel, etc.
149 posted on 01/24/2014 11:30:17 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: ex-snook

How much money to you feel like taking out of my pocket? C’mon, just give me a ballpark number.


150 posted on 01/24/2014 11:31:31 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: ex-snook
"Total cost is what counts."

YES EGGSACTLY! And your tariff does nothing to reduce the compliance costs of the EPA, OSHA, OBAMCARE, TORT LAYWERS, NIMBYS, TAXES and so on and so forth.

Its like you want to pretend those costs have no bearing whatsoever on the cost of goods produced in the USA.

151 posted on 01/24/2014 11:34:49 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mad Dawgg
"Once the congress critters get THAT particular bit between their teeth it will be Katie-bar-the door."

Congress was the one that lowered the tariffs in the first place. I don't buy the argument that we can't fix anything because Congress will only increase and not decrease taxes.

And of course none if your pie-in-the-sky tariff schemes deal with all the compliance costs of locating a manufacturing business here in the USA. Its why your $1.00 to $1.10 increases is so laughable.

Only businesses that are competitive against the tariffed product will locate here. So it's not like we are going to raise the price of a product from $1.00 to $1.10 and then someone will relocate to the U.S. and charge $5.00. They are only going to relocate here if they can produce it <=$1.10.

You are all pretending that Obamcare and the EPA and OSHA and the Greenie movement and the Tort Lawyers won't have a huge impact on the issue.

Again, they will relocate here if they can produce competitively against the tariffed product.

You also pretend that the lobbyists won't riddle your tariff to the point it will be so complex all that will get done is it will make more lawyers rich as they constantly go to court over exemptions and rulings etc.

Again with the fatalistic, "we can't try to fix anything because you don't trust congress".

Now my question is are you really that naive or is it part of the unionista movement to point over there while ignoring whats over here?

Are you that much of a wuss, that you give up before you've even started to fight?

152 posted on 01/24/2014 11:34:55 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: DannyTN
"Again, they will relocate here if they can produce competitively against the tariffed product. "

So you put a ten percent tariff on and then do nothing about the majority of compliance costs and then admit they will only locate here if they can make it cheaper but only considering the increased tariff costs NOT the fact that they now have waaaaay more compliance costs with things like Obamacare and such.

You do understand those costs won't magically disappear right?

So explain again what does the tariff do besides putting more money at the disposal of congress to buy more votes with?

153 posted on 01/24/2014 11:42:07 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: 1rudeboy
"How much money to you feel like taking out of my pocket? C’mon, just give me a ballpark number."

Keep giving you increases until your job is exported or done by an H1B. I hope you are getting close. We could use you on our side.

154 posted on 01/24/2014 11:42:07 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: 1rudeboy

The wood was in the import number and the screwdriver was in the GNP number.

Lets say wood is 16% of the cost of the screw driver. (Coincidently the same porportion as tariffs to GNP). And let’s say the screw driver costs $1.00 to produce pre-tariff and the wood costs $0.16 to import. We increase the cost of the wood by 10% so it now costs $0.176. Nothing else changes, so the cost to produce the screwdriver is $1.016, a 1.6% increase.


155 posted on 01/24/2014 11:43:11 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: ex-snook
Thanks for the non-answer. And by the way, I work in an area where illegal immigrants perform the work I do at 25% of the cost. So I really, really appreciate your effort to make everything more expensive for me.
156 posted on 01/24/2014 11:44:11 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: DannyTN
"Are you that much of a wuss, that you give up before you've even started to fight?"

Excellent non answer answer.

Bottom line does your tariff eliminate the compliance costs of Obamacare, OSHA, EPA, TORT Lawyers, NIMBYs, Taxes and so on and so forth?

yes or no?

157 posted on 01/24/2014 11:45:37 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: DannyTN
“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.”
― Friedrich von Hayek

158 posted on 01/24/2014 11:45:41 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

But I’m reducing your taxes because the government is not supporting the unemployed. Maybe you’re a big taxpayer and you’ll save more. As for the number, ask your boss what he has in mind to export your job or hire a H1B. He knows better than me.


159 posted on 01/24/2014 11:53:34 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: ex-snook
Good grief. Apart from the fact that you cannot reduce my taxes in any fashion, being a poster on an internet bulletin board, the notion that you think that total government expenditure drops when the unemployment falls from 10% to 5% is laughable, if not ridiculous.
160 posted on 01/24/2014 11:57:54 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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