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Refusing a sobriety test during the holidays not an option
Valleycentra ^ | 12.15.2013 | Valeria Aponte

Posted on 12/16/2013 8:56:37 AM PST by moonshinner_09

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To: fwdude

Correct, drunk driving laws should be abolished. They have led to gross violations of civil liberties, and have become a cash cow industry for local governments, lawyers and related businesses. And I don’t think they are very effective, and it distracts enforcement efforts away from other concerns. I think the focus should be on impairment, rather than singling out drinkers. Drinking, out of control kids in the car, cell phones, prescription meds, and driving incompetence can all be dangerous and reckless, but most of those are not treated as harshly as drinking.


141 posted on 12/17/2013 5:15:01 AM PST by JTHomes (Government is force.)
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To: fwdude
I am not opposed to laws against such things as murder, assault & theft because in and of themselves the acts of murder, assault and theft involve one person causing direct harm to another person. I think people should be held accountable when they cause direct harm to another person.

As I said, freedom, with responsibility. Perhaps you missed the responsibility part.

142 posted on 12/17/2013 9:20:42 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: fwdude

I favor holding people accountable when their actions cause direct harm to others.


143 posted on 12/17/2013 9:27:56 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: TexasGator

Yes. The People. What ever happened to them?


144 posted on 12/17/2013 9:28:41 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: WayneS

So, until a drunk rams his car into a family of 6 killing them all, he has done nothing wrong?

Wow!


145 posted on 12/17/2013 9:34:21 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

Yeah, wow.

Actual, real-life, individual self-determination - personal freedom coupled with responsibility - can be a scary thing the first time a fully indoctrinated minion of the nanny-state encounters it.

The world is a dangerous place. People do stupid things. Sometimes they cause direct harm to others while doing stupid things. When someone causes direct harm to someone else while doing something stupid they need to be held accountable. I have never argued against that and I never will.

Where you and I part ways is on the issue of prior restraint, or dictating a person’s behavior because you do not like it, or because you THINK he might harm someone else by his behavior.

I think that until/unless someone causes actual harm to another person, the government has no business telling them what to do. What must go along with this, though, is punishment (being held responsible) when one causes harm to another by one’s actions. A society governed by this philosophy will end up with a majority of its people being free and responsible citizens.

Your philosophy, asking government to punish behavior which you do not like or which you fear, leads to the government enacting laws to control all aspects of life and society. A society governed by your philosophy will end up with a majority of its people being criminals.


146 posted on 12/17/2013 11:43:51 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: WayneS

That is quite a fatalistic attitude you have. We have no responsibility or expectations of mitigating certain externalities of chosen behavior in the name of “freedom?” What are laws designed to do? Is reasonable public safety a reasonable expectation by people on the street?


147 posted on 12/17/2013 12:36:54 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude; eastforker
In Oregon, you can lose your CDL license for a . 04. Even if in your own car. So eastforker is correct.
148 posted on 12/18/2013 5:54:34 AM PST by FBD (My carbon footprint is bigger than yours)
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To: eastforker

And then there’s this:

Audit Finds O.C. Crime Lab Botched Some DUI Blood Tests

http://losalamitos.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/audit-finds-oc-crime-lab-botched-some-dui-blood-tests


149 posted on 12/18/2013 6:23:07 AM PST by FBD (My carbon footprint is bigger than yours)
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To: fwdude

You obviously either did not read, or at any rate did not understand, my post.


150 posted on 12/18/2013 6:34:10 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: WayneS

Perhaps I didn’t understand, but I am genuinely trying. I’m trying to determine if you are opposed to ALL laws, or to just those that you personally disagree with.


151 posted on 12/18/2013 9:17:08 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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