Natural Gas to Gasoline [MIT Review]

MIT Technology Review ^ | August 15, 2008 | Tyler Hamilton

[thackney]

May I guess ? the big reason ? regulations ? or the process ?

In the US, the regulations are going to make the economics harder. But they have a business partnership with a Kuwait company trying to sell the license internationally. I still would bet on real economic cost as the reason.

[thackney]

That was a US average for the industry. Individual plants can be designed to move that around a lot, but 5~10% growth is about all you get unless you ignore economics and keep cracking until it is all methane.

[shotgun]

Did you factor in all of the EPA permits they had to obtain just to build the test plant?

I admire the scientists and engineers that solve these problems, however the only problem they have yet to solve is how to get Uncle Sam out of their way and back pockets so their solutions can become reality for the rest of us...

This is why we will never see any of these refineries constructed. To paraphrase Obama, they can have them but it will just be so expensive that they cannot afford to build them.

[American Constitutionalist]

So basically about 20 gallons of that crude is able to produce regular gasoline ? and to top that off to make it more costly they add in there some kind of blends therefore use up more crude ?

[thackney]

They are trying to sell internationally as well. They are not limited by the EPA outside the US. A Kuwait company has a business relationship with them, although they have not planned to build one themselves. Kuwait already has GTL commercial operations with other technology.

[American Constitutionalist]

What a pity.

[thackney]

So basically about 20 gallons of that crude is able to produce regular gasoline ?

Yes, but the rest isn't waste. The other products have value as well.

and to top that off to make it more costly they add in there some kind of blends therefore use up more crude ?

Don't think of it as first making gasoline then using more energy to change that. It is more a case of making a variety of gasoline blending components to start with, then mixing the ingredients in the proportions to match different requirements.

[American Constitutionalist]

" Yes, but the rest isn't waste. The other products have value as well. "

Yup, I am aware of that.
Other fuels, petrol chemicals, plastics, heating fuels, jet fuels, and so many other products.
So that's helping American production with the new oil boom is the cost of some of those production plants running on natural gas for electricity, and ? the raw materials from petroleum.

[American Constitutionalist]

" Don't think of it as first making gasoline then using more energy to change that. It is more a case of making a variety of gasoline blending components to start with, then mixing the ingredients in the proportions to match different requirements. "
I call it pisswater blends that damage engines if the engines were not designed to run on it.

[thackney]

I believe there has been more growth in petrochem related to increased natural gas production than in the increased oil production.

The increase in natural gas has lead to an increase in natural gas liquids like ethane, propane and the like. Several new chemical plants are being built to take advantage of the new supply.

U.S. Gas Plant Production of Natural Gas Liquids and Liquid Refinery Gases
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MNGFPUS2&f=M

While the oil production growth has plenty of new jobs related to that production, I do not see growth downstream of that. We are basically just replacing imported oil with domestic oil. We are not see much new growth in refining.

U.S. Refinery Net Input of Crude Oil
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M_EPC0_YIY_NUS_2&f=M

[American Constitutionalist]

In other words it's displacing what we were importing with what we are able to get out of our own ground here in the US.
I don't know how much of a factor it's going to have in case Iran decides to block off the Straight of Hormuz.

[reg45]

I know that the output of a refinery can be optimized to favor gasoline over diesel or diesel over gasoline.

[citizen]

“I am not claiming it is a hoax, but I don’t believe they have a reliable economic solution.”

Sounds like the TDP process years ago. It seems to work, it is just not ecomomically viable.

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2004/Changing-World-Technologies4apr04.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changing_World_Technologies

[ckilmer]

Supposedly the cost to make a barrel of gasoline was $25 for the Texas process. That would not include the cost of the natural gas, but in some oil producing fields, the “natural gas” is discarded as it is not feasible to build pipelines.
............
You can see pictures from space of the huge flare off of natural gas being done in Eagle Ford and the Baaken formation.

[PA Engineer]

I believe there has been more growth in petrochem related to increased natural gas production than in the increased oil production.

The increase in natural gas has lead to an increase in natural gas liquids like ethane, propane and the like. Several new chemical plants are being built to take advantage of the new supply.

Agreed. Western PA and Eastern Ohio are ground zero with Hess, Sunoco, and Chevron positioning themselves in the area. Chevron is building their liquids headquarters near the airport in Pittsburgh. Sunoco has delayed their refinery-petrochem plant in Beaver Valley because of insufficient staffing and resources for another three years. Hess will be building in Ohio. There will be a lot of jobs "created" here.

My Daughter will be graduating in P&G Eng. in a little over a year. The companies are paying for internships and literally grabbing the students as they matriculate. Just have to prevent the government from once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[nascarnation]

I saw where they are going to build a half billion dollar water pipeline up from the Ohio River to supply fracking if the govt will allow it.

[thackney]

Yes but that optimization is building equipment, not changing set points.

[PA Engineer]

I saw where they are going to build a half billion dollar water pipeline up from the Ohio River to supply fracking if the govt will allow it.

I missed that one. If you can find the link, I would be interested. I was wrong about Sunoco. Sun is looking at Beaver Valley.

Another interesting article of local interest:

Consol details plans for drilling at Pittsburgh International Airport

Here is a revealing tidbit from the article.

Joseph Zoka, general manager for central Pennsylvania operations with Consol's gas division, said once the company starts drilling it'll be able to assess if it makes sense to also drill Upper Devonian wells from the same pads during the development process. Those wells, several hundred feet above the Marcellus, also would be horizontal shale wells.