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German pilot in WWII spared an American B-17 pilot over Germany only to reunite 40 years later
War History.com ^ | March 12, 2013

Posted on 03/18/2013 10:18:04 AM PDT by robowombat

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To: Hot Tabasco
Is shooting a paratrooper who bailed out of a disabled B-17 while still in the air a moral and ethical thing to do? Mr. Stigler didn't think so.
Shooting people baling out is immoral. But the B-17 was heading back home to fight another day.

So you would have had no problem with the Confederacy in killing all the Union soldiers it had captured? And conversely, you would have had no problem with the Union killing all the Confederate soldiers it had captured?
The captured analogy would be to parachuting, not a plane returning to base.

Sorry kid, but there is more to war than just killing everyone in your sights, especially those who are no longer a military threat. Hopefully one day you'll be able to experience it for yourself rather than pontificate about it in the comfort of your nice New York Jewish neighborhood.
Your analogies don't apply. If you think that a plane returning to base is a prioner, then you lack perspective.

61 posted on 03/18/2013 4:49:51 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: rmlew

>>War is not analogous to crimes. There are no cops. <<

Oh yes it is. The cops come around in the middle of the night when everyone else is sleeping and reminds you of the crimes you saw and those you committed. Those are nightmares that you will never forget.

There is an immense difference between defending your life from an armed attacker and murdering a defenseless soldier who can do you no harm.

I will pray that you never see combat.


62 posted on 03/18/2013 6:01:50 PM PDT by B4Ranch (When democracy turns to tyranny, we still get to vote. We just won't use voting boxes to do it.)
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To: robowombat

I had a friend whose Father had a large farm in Alabama. During WWII He had a large group of German POWs from the Africa Corps, who worked on his farm.

He would give each of the prisoners a coca cola and a pack of cigarettes every day which was above what he was required to pay them. These German prisoners would get Red Cross packs from Germany. One of the items in them would be ersatz cigarettes. He said the first thing they would do was throw away their German cigarettes.

The old farmer became good friends with a bunch of them and traded letters and Christmas cards with some until he died.

My Father watched German POWs being loaded into trucks. There was only one guard per truck. As he tried to step up to the trucks body, he handed one of the prisoners his Garand and the German helped pull gun up.


63 posted on 03/18/2013 6:07:40 PM PDT by yarddog (Truth, Justice, and what was once the American Way.)
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To: Dilbert56

It was the G model that had the chin turret. I knew a man who was a B-17 ball-turret gunner. Man was that guy lucky. That was the ‘’dead mans’’position. You had to cram yourself into that thing without a parachute and it was hydraulic operated. If the hydraulics were shot out you were toast. There wasn’t anyway to manually crank it up. Many a poor guy in that position ended up a red smear on the runway if it had to make a belly landing.


64 posted on 03/18/2013 8:57:15 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: yarddog
“...In his book Saburo Sakai said that...”

I have the book, I think he had a conscience, and was very frank. He also meet with enemy pilots after the war. I believe if he lived by a code, then he may have spared an enemy pilot. He had the same compassion for a shot up enemy fighter plane.
many of the pilots of both nations failed to survive the war the 1st 4 months of pacific war.

65 posted on 03/21/2013 6:18:33 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: ExGeeEye
you are correct,

In pacific late 1941, B17C and D models were still in operation. The new E/F model were just entering service.
(by mid 42 they had replaced and were in full operation, in Europe a little later because philosphy there was LARGE formation use, where as in Pacific they were used piece meal).

66 posted on 03/21/2013 6:30:39 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: jmacusa
“...average German felt about ‘’final victory’’ and ...”

Good analogy,

War is brutal and atrocities were(will be) commit ed by both sides. But, it is acts of compassion that reflect true humanity.
Many in the German army were professionals. They believed in the code.
Stigler’s action was not unique,but I have no doubt, he never regretted his decision!!

Thanks for your remarks

67 posted on 03/21/2013 6:38:34 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: robowombat
Good Post!!!

Mercy trumps sacrifice!!!!

68 posted on 03/21/2013 6:39:59 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: kimtom

You’re welcome however any German soldier conducted himself personally its important to never lose sight of the fact that every German soldier, flier or Kreigsmariner who did his duty that soldier made it possible every month, everyday day, every hour for some unfortunate to be shoved into a gas chamber. This is and will forever be the awful legacy of that generation of Germans who served Fuhrer und Vaterland’’.


69 posted on 03/21/2013 12:19:08 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: yarddog

One of the sad ironies of WW2 is that German prisoners in the South were given passes to go into towns and basically have a good time for themselves. It was galling for sure to see Germans be able to go to movie theaters and get front row seats while African-Americans had to sit in the balcony.


70 posted on 03/21/2013 8:36:29 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: jmacusa
One of the sad ironies of WW2 is that German prisoners in the South were given passes to go into towns and basically have a good time for themselves. It was galling for sure to see Germans be able to go to movie theaters and get front row seats while African-Americans had to sit in the balcony.

I talked to a GI one time who told me that when he was a guard at one of those hastaly-built POW camps, the POWs lived in heated barracks while the GIs guarding them still lived in tents before their own barracks were erected.

The US policy then was to be real nice to the German POWs hoping the Germans would respond in kind. The only thing the US did do was attempt to identify the real hard-core Nazis among the POWs and keep them in separate higher security facilities.

The average German 'Grunt' was treated very well, and even allowed to hold jobs in the local area on farms etc. They were treated like 'trusties' in a civilian prison. They just had to report back at the appointed time. Some of them left the POW camps after the war with a lot of savings.

71 posted on 03/21/2013 8:54:20 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: Stonewall Jackson

It might have been humane on the part of the Japanese commander to do what he did. It might however been a matter of practicality too. Leave your enemy to be rescued by his own comrades and your enemy lives to fight another day. To see the real face of Japanese treatment of Allied prisoners look up the “Hell Ships’’ and the nightmare that was for so many unfortunate Allied prisoners. John Toland’s excellent book “The Rising Sun’ is a good place to start.’. From the Bataan Death March, the “Hell Ships’’’ to the Thai-Burma Railway the Japs were brutal captors.


72 posted on 03/21/2013 8:58:33 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: yarddog

The B-17E and later had tail gunners. There were very few B, C and D models. The Pearl Harbor B-17s were D models, IIRC and didn’t have tail gunners. All the B-17s in Europe were E or later and B-17Fs were the first to do large scale bombing in Germany.


73 posted on 03/21/2013 9:06:30 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: jmacusa
“...who did his duty that soldier made it possible every month, everyday day, every hour for some unfortunate to be shoved into a gas chamber....”

The same could be said about our current armed forces and the present administration. (sarc)
Also then, we (WE, US) share the same responsibility for the millions (unborn) of innocent that have been slain since Roe vs Wade.
That is a terrible burden.

I will give the ordinary soldier some mercy and benefit of doubt for their ignorance.

I too served in ignorance,but at least it was under Reagan, and not the last few poor excuses. (sarc)

Thanks, you still make good points.

74 posted on 03/22/2013 5:00:43 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: jmacusa
“...however been a matter of practicality too. Leave your enemy to be rescued by his own comrades and your enemy lives to fight another day....”

Not all Japanese combatants were brutal. There were some acts of kindness, even at Bataan. Though it WAS not the practice of Japanese Military to treat POW humanely, there are many accounts of Humane acts.
On the the high seas as well as the desert of N. Africa, soldiers still had a code.
Americans have been known to strafe pilots in parachutes as well. (not to mention the B-25/ A20 that strafed merchant ships in Solomons).
So, war brings out the best and worse in mankind.
The Godless Nations will always lean to the Beastly side.
(and cruelty to their own people as well, Pol Pot, Stalin.)

thx

75 posted on 03/22/2013 5:18:12 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: MediaMole

see post 66, close


76 posted on 03/22/2013 5:19:48 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: jmacusa
I recommend the book "Ship of Ghosts", which is about the survivors of the heavy cruiser Houston, which was sunk during the Battle of the Sunda Straits. The survivors, along with those from the Australian light cruiser Perth and a Texas National Guard field artillery battalion captured on Java, were transported to Burma and forced to work on constructing the Burma-India Railroad. They assisted in constructing the Bridge on the River Kwai.
77 posted on 03/22/2013 6:58:13 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Molon Labe!)
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To: kimtom
The fact that as many as 36 to 40% per cent of Allied prisoners of war died under Japanese captivity is testament to their harshness as captors. The figure for Allied prisoners under German captivity is around 1%. I understand your sarcasm, thank you, and that aside, I'm not of the temperament to listen to arguments of moral equivalence when it comes to who were the worst aggressors in the Second World War, Allied or Axis. The bloody Germans and the Japanese started the whole damn mess with every intention of winning it and enslaving the world, and had they done so this would be a very different world indeed. They are directly responsible for launching a six-year cataclysm humanity barely survived. The German nation committed the most heinous and unspeakable horror mankind has ever witnessed in The Holocaust and the legacy of Japanese cruelty is very fresh and painful in the minds of the Asian peoples who suffered the barbarity of the Imperial Japanese Army. Thank you for your comments to my post.
78 posted on 03/22/2013 11:54:04 AM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Stonewall Jackson
Thank you, I'll get a copy. Toland’s book is a very powerful and graphic account of so much of how cruel the Japanese were. Oddly enough Toland’s wife was Japanese. I started reading WW2 history when I was in the fifth grade(1967) and from then on was mesmerized by the scope of it and unashamed to say that despite whatever Americas short comings as a nation and a people, without the United States winning the war, and we did WIN that war, humanity might well have become extinct.
79 posted on 03/22/2013 12:02:22 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: jmacusa
I still have my first history book, "Air War Over Hitler's Germany", which I picked up at a bazaar in West Germany when I was six.

My maternal grandfather was a college history professor and a veteran of World War Two and Korea, so I learned a great deal of history on his knee. After he passed away several years ago, I inherited his collection of history books. I had to build a whole new wall of shelves to house them, and I still have a bunch that are languishing in boxes because I don't have a spare wall right now.

80 posted on 03/22/2013 5:45:44 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Molon Labe!)
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