Elaine Donnelly: Women in Combat Order “Dangerous Social Experiment”

Newsmax ^ | Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013 08:54 PM | David A. Patten

[jmcenanly]

The Russians and the Israelis once allowed women in front-line combat. Neither of them do today. It would be edifying if someone in congress had someone from either of these two countries explain why this is so.

[Mr Rogers]

“if a woman wants to serve and is found to be qualified and wants to be in a combat unit, doesn’t she have that right?”

The CJCS has already said they will dumb down the standards. Technically, he said the combat commanders would have to prove they aren’t setting too high of a standard - but only an IDIOT goes to war thinking, “How low can we go? What is the MINIMUM we can get by with?”

And women cannot train up to the standard of an average male who is being trained. We already know this. A woman can be fit, but a man who trains equally hard will be much fitter.

[jmacusa]

Maybe so. It is acknowledged men have more upper body strength . Still, when I studied martial arts I saw plenty of 130lb. women black belts kick the crap out of men twice their size who were also black belts without any standards being lowered. But combat obviously isn't a karate match. I would say why lower the standards? Keep them were they are and see if women really can hold their own.

[EDINVA]

“... civil discourse and debate in America are truly extinct.” But ignorance obviously thrives.

Dusty Moment at Post #5: “Gee, ya THINK, Elaine!?? You could try to impose worse ideas on the military, but your feminist meddling where it doesn’t belong has lead to this.”

Post #5 !!!! In the 24 minutes that elapsed between the posting of this thread and your response you surely could have quickly googled Ms. Donnelly. But, oh, no. You had to rush in and post without a clue of who or what you were writing about. Sorry for calling you out and hurting your wittwe feewings as you are still moaning days and posts later.

Had you taken a minute to search, you might have found that the very first line about Elaine Donnelly at Wiki reads: “Elaine Donnelly is an American conservative activist principally concerned with preserving the traditional culture of the U.S. military.”

The next paragraph begins: She spent several years as an activist in opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment as National Media Chair of Phyllis Schlafly’s Eagle Forum and then founded the Michigan Stop-ERA Committee.

Quite the feminist meddler!

Ms. Donnelly has been out there fighting the lonely, thankless fight for decades. Forgive me if I found your insult to HER to be uniquely offensive. Review if you will my 12 or so years of postings here and rare will be any that reflect frustration in strong language.

[DustyMoment]

And, you continue to make my point.

Thanks, ED, for proving how deep a swamp FR has has been dragged into.

I think we’re done.

[rollo tomasi]

"I would say why lower the standards? Keep them were they are and see if women really can hold their own."

Apparently you do not understand the administrative workings in the military. If a Commander is not pulling enough "numbers" that the civis in the Executive Branch expect, the Commander's career is over. What is a Commander to do? Keeps the standards the same, lol.

Also, front-line training/combat is very graphic at times, should we accommodate the females privacy at the expense of proficiency of the unit? History is not on the side that whines about equality, females are just granted special rights that are not afforded to their suppose equals in the military (My 0-5 AF wife tells me this all the time, btw). Your tag-line combined with your arguments is very convoluted.

[EDINVA]

No, I made MY point There’s no fixing stupid.

[jmacusa]

I’m merely asking if a woman wants to serve and is willing to do so AND turns out to be up to the task, why should she be prevented? Is every male up to the task as well? It’s her country too, isn’t it? As to my tag-line, Marxism is doctrinaire and lock-step. I’m not.

[DustyMoment]

Thank you for acknowledging that you lack certain refinements.

I still think we’re done. Just let it go. If you will not be civil, please at least be silent.

[rollo tomasi]

"AND turns out to be up to the task"

Please give me an example where standards have not been "dumbed" down in order for females to adapt in the United States military. You are a prototypical Cultural Marxists if there ever was lol

[rollo tomasi]

"AND turns out to be up to the task"

Please give me an example where standards have not been "dumbed" down in order for females to adapt in the United States military. You are a prototypical Cultural Marxists if there ever was lol

[rollo tomasi]

Apologies for the double post. iPad is laggy

[jmacusa]

Have they dumbed down the standards for flying an Apache helicopter? Women were flying those in Iraq. Have the Marines dumbed down their standards? Maybe you know more than I do on the subject. I just think if a woman can cut in combat why shouldn’t she been given the chance, And screw you bud, I’m no f’ing Marxist.

[rollo tomasi]

"Have they dumbed down the standards for flying an Apache helicopter?

Yes, study PT requirements and actual history/protocol you ignoramus.

"Women were flying those in Iraq."

Against what Iraqi Air Force you ignoramus.

"Have the Marines dumbed down their standards?"

Yes you ignoramus.

"I just think if a woman can cut in combat why shouldn’t she been given the chance, And screw you bud, I’m no f’ing Marxist."

You sure sound like it, you Marxist ignoramus. BTW, ignoramus is not an insult, just means you have no F'ing clue.

[rollo tomasi]

"Against what Iraqi Air Force you ignoramus."

I say this because air cover was at 100%. SAMs were their only obstacles. Plus their physical requirements are dumbed downed you ignoramus. I cringe when the US military faces a military that has 21st century capability. The video game mentality will grind to a halt.

[jmacusa]

If you noticed I said maybe you know more on the subject.You f**king ignoramus.Learn how to use a f**king computer a-hole.

[rollo tomasi]

"Learn how to use a f**king computer a-hole."

It was a F'ing tablet that had a laggy cell reception from Verizon which hanged when I touched the send button (So I touched it again, hence the double post), not a computer, lol.

And I know a little about the subject/historical trends because I grew up as a military brat (Dad who bitched and moaned every night about hegemonic change on what was not broken in the first place) married to a Air Force Officer and had enough sense to figure out the military is compromised by civilians who don't understand the human condition or differences in capabilities.

I apologize for my crudeness and accusation you of being a proponent of Cultural Marxism, lol, but just fed up with post WWII civilians who think they can fit a large square peg into a smaller circle and call it equality.

[rollo tomasi]

BTW, I think there is room for Apache female pilots/pilots in general, but infantry (Front-line) is where the line CANNOT be dumb down. Unfortunately historical trends say otherwise. Special Forces will probably be compromised as well.

In a perfect world the powers that be would maintain standards let females personally deal with defecating in front of males while wiping their anus with hands/showering in front of horny 18-25+ males/carrying 125+ packs for hours on end that gradually get heavier, only small examples btw

Good evening, wish you well

[jmacusa]

Apology accepted and my apologies in return. In spirit I would think a woman willing to volunteer to serve her country is a good thing. They have for almost 100 years now. The WACS, the Waves, female Marines since WW1&2 and on down and of course as front-line nurses. But that isn't the same as being in combat. At the time I was reading your latest post I was on the phone with my military ''expert'' my best friend Paul. Paul is an Air Force brat. His late father flew P-40s in WW2 and then made the transition to being an Air Force intelligence officer after the war. Paul has lived on air bases in Maine, South Dakota, Hawaii and England. Paul served as an artillery sergeant with the First Field Forces that was part of the re-activated 9th. Infantry Division(''Americal'') at a fire-base outside of Ben Het South Vietnam(69-71). He was a first sergeant in charge of a four-gun battery of self-propelled 175mm.guns. What he told me in regards to just normal maintenance required on a daily basis to maintain those guns made me realize it is definitely no place for a woman. He said ''Men shouldn't even be doing it but that's war'' he said. For one thing he told me the tube on a 175 is 52 feet long and has to be changed out every three days, swabbed out and he said it took at least three men working together to swab it. And taking out that gun tube requires lots of ''a-frames'', jacks and other kinds of tools. "It's a bitch'' he said. Humping 100lb plus bags of powder and shells about four feet long and weighing at least 100lbs having to be unloaded, put in bunkers and then moved to the guns when firing. And doing it in a climate where it's about 100 degrees and the humidity is about the same. He said ''How long do you think some woman can go without bathing before she gets a bladder infection under those conditions?'' He said when he first arrived at the fire base and assigned to a gun at around three in the afternoon he was told ''take a nap''. He didn't understand at first but he was woken up a few hours later when it was dark, given a ''dexie''(amphetamines) and he said ''We fired all night,''interdicting fire'' he called it.After the fire mission as day light was coming he was given a joint to smoke to come down from the speed. ''All f'ing night, almost every night and every f'ing day''. he said. ''John(that's me) he said, it was like Hell on Earth''. That was Paul's day job''. Paul's father had raised him and his brother to basically accept The Bill of Rights as the only real law, primarily the First and Second Amendment , well actually really only the Second. He taught his sons how to shoot, how to clean and maintain firearms and told his sons, "There is your mother and your two sisters. When I'm not here, you two are the men in this home. If someone attempts to cross that threshold in force or anger, you drop them''. Paul became an expert shot before he was drafted. He took all the combat courses he could and the wind-up is he ended up doing, ah, how would you say, ''contract work'' for the CIA under the Phoenix Program. He said the two guys wearing the ''Hawaiian Shirts'' and shades would drive up in a jeep to his CO and Sergeant X would have to go do a ''job''. I think you know what that means. yeah, combat is no place for a woman. He said this is how communists(and I know Obama is one) destroy a free society.

[rollo tomasi]

Plenty of areas for women to proudly serve and females do have opportunities to “see action” without all the day-to-day physical and mental grind infantry/Special Forces go through. Securing logistics/Security in general is an example of where women experience combat. Front-line and Special Forces should only be a male domain in our current volunteer military structure. Of course when the poop hits the fan and a population must defend against an invading force, every man/women for themselves if they so choose.