Posted on 12/19/2012 7:42:27 PM PST by neverdem
“....Maybe they don’t work that well in everyone....”
As one who has worked with severely emotionally disturbed
(SED) boys (8-18 yrs old) in a residential Tx facility
for fifteen years I would say that you are spot on. Most
of the kids do quite well when they are taking their
meds, others can make you wonder just how out bad things
might be if their meds were discontinued. And, sometimes
there doesn’t seem to be much difference in their out-
ward behavior once meds have bee discontinued or changed.
Very astute perception on your part.
It's a psychoactive stimulant that has paradoxical effects in "hyperactive" kids. There was at least one example of someone getting it and a SSRI, if not more.
Secondly, it’s no surprise that people who are prescribed antidepressants kill themselves and at times others.
Are you a shrink, or are you just playing one? People with major depressive disorder might think of suicide, but they often barely do anything, they can become that lethargic. People with bipolar disorder often commit violence to others and themselves when they become manic. These SSRIs are often given out like candy by primary care docs who are oblivious about their adverse effects. Some people should never be given SSRIs. They start having serotonin syndrome within days after first getting one of these SSRIs. Other get serotonin syndrome shortly after an increase in the dose of the SSRI. This isn't just bizarre ideation. There are physical signs and symptoms. To top it off there's serotonin withdrawal syndrome that's about as bad.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
As a Family doc, what question do you ask of every patient that has a complaint of depression? It should be, “are you having thoughts of harming yourself or others?” WHY? Because people with depression often have suicidal/homocidal ideations. Right?
Wrong. First they don't come in complaining of being depressed unless that diagnosis was already made. If it wasn't made already they have other complaints, e.g. insomnia, loss of appetite, etc. If I suspected major depression, I'd question him about suicidal ideation. Why are they thinking about violence to others unless they have a motive, i.e. revenge. Those really depressed don't have the energy. I'd be worried about violence to others in schizophrenics who have become psychotic or bipolars who have become manic.
Both the Left who want to ban guns and the Right who want to blame meds are both wrong. Knee jerk reactions are dangerous secondary to their unintended consequences.
There are 330 MILLION people in this country. 330 MILLION! How often does this happen?
Go to the link for SSRI Stories in the original article. It has 4800+ stories that made the news. The FDA has an adverse drug reactions reporting system. Their tallies don't reflect under reporting especially when it could reflect malpractice. If you want to ignore the adverse effects of these drugs, I can't make you become aware.
The blood pressure medicines are supposed to REDUCE THE RISK OF HEART ATTACK — not make you think you’re now normal and will never have one...
Anti-depressants are not merely given to someone to because of "thoughts of suicide." They are given to people to make them feel and appear more "normal" -- to "fit in."
The rest of us live with homicidal maniacs whose intentions are masked.
One item that I’d like to see is whether a particular med is appropriately prescribed for the condition, and whether the lowest effective dose is being prescribed.
I see that Luvox is listed on the Ten Worst list, but I have to say that when it’s prescribed as above, it’s a Godsend. It’s the only med approved for children with moderate to severe OCD and for that, with the right kid in the right amount, it works. The reason SSRIs are so effective with OCD is that the serotonin in people affected by OCD recycles in the brain cells, creating the repetitive thoughts and doubts that lead to the OCD behaviors. The SSRI frees up the serotonin that is supposed to flow between brain cells and restores the balance. So, unless Dylan Klebold had OCD, it probably made things worse for him, or at least didn’t improve whatever he had.
OTOH, antidepressants in young people like Zoloft and Prozac scare the living stuffing out of me.
I’m a big fan of Sam-e. I just take it to mitigate daily stress and overwork... been taking it for about six years.
Bm
All of them?
What about the 'welfare disability' group--the ones who are "sad all the time" so they get medicated, the Social Serpents get more "caseload", the baby momma gets a bigger check. I am aware of some of this, and the kids are a mess--and likely a write-off, unlikely to ever recover from the chemical changes made to their systems. (For instance, if you've been on Ritalin, the USMC wasn't interested in you, and that was a ticket out of the projects if you'd managed to keep your nose clean.)
Go to the SSRI stories link in the article, there are more instances of this sort of thing.
>> He won’t take them at all now.
Have things improved?
That much is true.
It’s like saying because a large percentage of people who have heart attacks were also taking blood pressure medicines, the blood pressure medicines caused the heart attack.
There is also validity in the medications themselves triggering aggressive and hallucinogenic behavior. Would you believe a Freeper who has seen it happen before? I have seen it happen.
I've give you the Clinical name. It's called Serotonin Syndrome or migration. SSRI's even under best of conditions can trigger a migration of the chemical Serotonin straight to the brain from places like the stomach.
The danger? The persons hallucinations are their reality. More danger? Many doctors never heard of it including ones prescribing the medication. There does seem to be a link between it and persons who suffer neurological damage or neurological disorders as being more prone to this. Or a patient taking lets say Zoloft gets a cold and takes an OTC cough Syrup. That is all it takes. That seems to be the most common trigger to it but the SSRI or antidepressant alone can also cause it.
For the vast majority the meds do fine. But there are notiable exceptions where it goes very badly wrong very fast.
All too often doctors especially Shrinks do not dig into a patients medical history deep enough to find hidden physical ailments of which antidepressants will bring on an adverse reaction. Both myself and my wife have on our medical records "No Antidepressants".
My wife took Zoloft and Trazodone for mdepression and PTSD and after a few months suddenly thought she was Tess on Touched by an Angel. She also beat herself black and blue while thrashing non stop for several days. BTW she's a quadriplegic {was such before that}. Her CT Scan showed recent bleeder in the brain from the episode. Doctors were clueless. Some discussions on FR a few years earlier had me to start looking at her antidepressants on a web search. When I showed the doctor a highly credible report on Serotonin Syndrome he said that is pure Rubbish. I said is this not your universities Pharmacology School Professors report? It was at a university hospital. He ordered a CT Scan after I showed him that.
First attack I was on the interstate. I had no idea where I was, how I got there, how long, where I was going, etc. I had no meds in my bloodstream. In about 25 minutes time I wa somewhat OK. By the next day I was weak and noises were making me spasm in my upper torso like someone hit with a bucket of ice or cattle prod. No doctor had an answer. I was placed on Xanax 2 mg twice daily. For about two six hour periods a day I was functional. I know why it was because the Xanax last 6-8 hours.
They did MRI, CT Scans, EEG, you name it. Nothing showed up. In a months time the spasms {seizures I would later learn} nearly stopped. I returned to work. I went on a service call in the nursing home I worked in as a maintenance mechanic. I got to the residents apartment in thretirement center and an elderly woman was in the hall crying. I asked what's wrong. She said Oh the noise please make it stop. I said take me to the noise. It was her AC unit running normally. I turned it off and she was fine. I told the nurse and she said yea she just got out of the hospital today.
I went back to my shop and sat down. Someone behind the door yelled down the hall and I about went through the ceiling. Then it hit again. Where am I, what am I doing etc. Only this time I was not recovering. I called my wife and she could tell I was in bad shape. She called my dad to come and pick me up and I called in a relief maintenance man. That was my last day I could work again. I retired that night age 37.
I went to my doctor next day. I was sent to a Shrink. The Shrink then says I want to put you on an antidepressant. Being a trusting person figuring doctor know best I tried it. It was Paxil. Within about two weeks I was in the ER having a catheter put in because my bladder blocked. What did it Paxil. That causes a very serious and potentially condition called Dysreflexia usually only seen in spinal cord patients. Your body goes into shock then if not stopped Death.
After a week the catheter was taken out. Guess what the doctor wanted to do next? Different antidepressant. This went on for over a year. The Xanax worked but only half the time and when I took an antidepressant I became sick at my stomach and agiated. It made my condition worse. Any noises and quite a few visual stimulation's put me in seizure.
One day I did find a book. It was called Phobia Free by Harold Levinson. It was as if a huge puzzle was suddenly being pieced together. He was addressing Anxiety Disorders and it's links to Vestibular Damage & Cerebellar related issues. In short the portion of the brain involving sensory processing. I was born one eye functional. I always had poor coordination and was thought to have ADD ADHD as a kid. I was born in 1957 BTW.
I took that info to the Shrink. Shrink says no that can't do that you need more antidepressants. Finally I had taken all I was going too. I fired the shrink. This was about the fourth one. I found another Shrink and talked to him. He said I've seen it before and antidepressants can't treat it. He took my two twice a day doses of 2mg of Xanax and said he was cutting it too .5mg or half a MG four times a day. BINGO by golly RELIEF at last.
What I have has no name because I likely have several coexisting disorders. My sensory processing system is shot. No cure known. My seizures are Sensory Induced Myoclonic Seizures which Xanax helps to control. I have had as many as a dozen in a minutes time. No doctor told me this I researched it myself like I did the sensory processing disorders using my life long medical history. As a toddler and young kid I had inappropriate responses to sound and sight. IOW wrong response. If I saw a snake I stopped up my ears. Seventh & Eighth grade was spent in a Special ED school for physical and learning disabilities where they worked on my coordination. Up till about age 10 loud noises like fireworks or thunder put me in hysteria.
I know now because of my wifes experiences I was very close to having Serotonin Syndrome. I post about this usually to help others who have this and doctors can't give them answers. I know of about a dozen persons who have have it most were Freepers.
That is why I say again doctors need to look harder for root causes. Vestibular Disorders meaning Inner Ear related the secondary symptoms are ANXIETY. Thanks to Levinsons book I found needed answers. Mental Health experts for years dismissed his research. Vestibular researchers have proving many of his findings in the 1970's to be right.
Many disorders including the so called ADD ADHD epidemic are all too often other causes such as sensory processing disorders and Ritalin makes matter worse. The last thing needed is more sensory impulses. My case is an extreme of that spectrum. I am a 18 year user of Xanax. Many doctors especially mental health doc say you can't do that it won't work. Yes it does. The Shrink retired a decade ago or more. My Internal medicine Doctor writes the script and he understands my condition after I explained it too him . Today I am over 50% deaf and walk with a cane for fall prevention. Neverdem is making some valid points. Take it from this Freeper who used to flame those warning about antidepressants.
The events where I go into the where am I what am I doing stae I've learned over time to head it off either by playing my six string or if I'm out popping a Xanax under my tounge and letting it disolve. Stuff works fast that way LOL.
BTW the 2 mg doses of Xanax I was taking with the antidepressants was all that likely kept me from having full blown Serotonin Syndrome. God only knows what could have happened. Benzo’s are the protocol drug to stop it. Oddly enough my wife also was taking Xanax with her antidepressants and it likely saved her very life.
imagine that- an entire article peppered with cites based on a neighbor’s gossip
the cops have had a week to search the house to find drugs and found none
initial tox reports indicate the shooter wasnt on meds
now, did they test his system for twinkies? I hear they can cause murder
“These meds are given to people with mental disorders who are ALREADY suicidal/homocidal in many instances.”
The author did an excellent job sourcing his presumption with an extensive list of medicated youth violence. Can you provide counter-evidence? Please post a list of recent school shooters who were not on psych medicines.
Lanza’s uncle and neighbor both claim the boy was on psych drugs. That’s not something people randomly accuse a family member or neighbor of. I’ll take their word over the MSM’s anytime.
I couldn’t believe that the article stated “Adam Lanza, the suspected shooter in the Sandy Hook Elementary School killings...”
What the hell? Suspected shooter????????????
Can anyone explain such a stupid statement? Political Correctness has completely erased common sense in journalism.
“Any patient taking these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, SSRI, meds are.”
If indeed you are a practicing physician, then I have to question your professional competence in making such blanket statement.
Are these drugs overprescribed? Yes, most certainly. However, to state that SSRIs make some (implied all) homocidal is borderline malpractice. You are as bad as those physicians that overprescribe.
A great many persons have been helped by the SSRIs. However, like ALL drugs, there will be adverse effects. Prudence is always called for in their use - all medications.
Of course this might turn out to be a chicken or the egg kind of argument———are dangerous people made more dangerous by use of drugs, or do these drugs inhibit possible violence by already dangerous individuals? My own personal experience with someone with mental problems who was taking drugs was that she became more violent the more drugs she took. Maybe she would have gone bonkers anyway, at any rate, the more prescribed psychiatric drugs she took, the worse she got. And I had to break up the relationship before I woke up one morning with a knife stuck in my chest.
A very cogent point. I cannot remember these many mass shootings, or hardly any, when growing up in the fifties and sixties before the introduction of ritalin and other psychotropic drugs that are commonly prescribed today.
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