Posted on 11/14/2012 3:52:19 PM PST by greyfoxx39
I know I know I know!!!!!!
And people in churches work within the church, and are very much pressured at times. Have some enjoyment in your faith and if they are not hurting you or anyone else, so what. They are a positive group, leave them alone.
mormonISM is not positive it drives people away from God Almighty.
They do hurt people, they drive people away from God Almighty.
My experiences with mormonISM goes back to 1962, it is neither harmless or positive.
You want me to leave them alone, as a Christian we are to call out false teachings and prophets (it’s Biblical), if you are uncomfortable with my calling them out, it is something you need to take up with God.
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The world's sixth-largest religion and growing, the LDS church proselytizes relentlessly. If it fails to convert you in this life, it will try to get you in the next one by baptizing the dead. (Even Holocaust victims have not been spared this posthumous rite.) A financial and political powerhouse, the LDS church not only dominates most of Utah's social service agencies, but also the government, the public schools, and the media. It even runs the shopping malls. As a result, the church shapes the life of everyone who lives in Utah, Mormon or not.
All-Mormon Supreme Court Spells Theocracy to Disgruntled Utahans
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"Anybody who lives here knows where all the power is," says Matt Gilmore, 90, a lawyer who for many years was general counsel to the Utah Tax Commission.
"You got a Supreme Court that's all Mormon, a Legislature that's practically all Mormon, an executive department headed up by a Mormon and a Republican Party that's all Mormon."
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■ “Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium.
“Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86–87).
We find it hilarious that you mormonism defenders get your underwear in a knot about the posting of factual mormon doctrine from mormon sources by a few dozen FReepers at the same time that your leaders are bragging about the following:
We are grateful for the 52,225 full-time missionaries serving in more than 150 countries.16 The sun never sets on righteous missionaries testifying of the Savior mormon church. Think of the spiritual power of 52,000 missionaries, endowed with the Spirit of the Lord Joseph Smith, boldly declaring that there is “no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come … , only in and through the name of Christ. mormon church temple rituals
"My young brethren of the priesthood, I testify of the majesty, but most of all, of the certainty of this magnificent event. The Savior lives. He will return to the earth (the Second Coming) . And whether on this side of the veil or the other, you and I will rejoice in His coming and thank the Lord that He sent us to earth at this time to fulfill our sacred duty of helping prepare the world for His return the mormon theocracy
."other people, who may not yield full obedience to his laws, nor be fully instructed in his covenants, will, nevertheless, have to yield full obedience to his government. For it will be the reign of God upon the earth, and he will enforce his laws, and command that obedience from the nations of the world which is legitimately his right” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor [2001], 225).
.....it would take the "god squad" here on FR no more than a few days to target some other Christian sect that did not believe "Exactly As We Do" for the full force of their vinegar and water fusillade.
Well, NS..speaking for myself, if some actual "Christian" (mormonism is not Christian) faith required its members to take the following oath in an arcane temple ritual in order to gain "salvation"...
"You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
And if a candidate for POTUS had taken this vow numerous times with no guarantee that his Oath of Office to the US would supersede this oath, I would certainly dispute his worthiness to become POTUS regardless of his proclaimed "Christianity".
The whole 'pounding on doors' thing applies to every faith that wants to recruit new members.
Thank God Romney isn't in the White House, working hand in hand with Harry Reid to destroy the first amendment.
Actually it's more in the 6-8 billion a year range, extrapolated from data revealed in a lawsuit in England a few years back.
Thanks, Mr. Robinson!
Good to see. I hope observers take not of these Stepford-wife-on-the-outside, Harry-Reid-on-the-inside tricks.
huh?
What Protestants bang on your door?
The only thing I have ever seen Protestants do is hand out flyers for Easter and Christmas services.
Holly, Mitt's "track record" and a "prophet's" ways are two distinct things.
Had Mitt been POTUS, he would have been beholden to ANY & ALL requests made of him by his "prophet."
You see, some try to compare the situation to Kennedy as a Catholic being beholden to the Pope. But #1...Kennedy never made a vow (that I know of) that everything he owned was consecrated to the church. Romney did.
And secondly there wasn't a history of political overreach statements within recent centuries by popes; I could cite a dozen such statements.
Governors & congressmen -- in terms of "favors" they could be requested to do by a Mormon "prophet"...pales in comparison to THE leader of the free world.
Usually, one starts with a dictionary.
Whose dictionary? These days the meanings of words can change from day to day. See now, I think based upon the dictionary meaning some of my relatives are bigots, but, they consider me a bigot.
NS, #1...if you somehow think that all of these groups are "Christian," well, then I suppose you're in the "naive" category and think that all denominations of bills are equal...and that there's no such thing as "counterfeit bills."
I don't need to hold "heresy trials" because Christendom has largely already agreed that JWs have resurrected the arian heresies which the early church fought.
Likewise, Christian Science has long been deemed a cult.
The Millerites (Seventh Day Adventists) ... has been the closest to having disagreement in the Christian community: Some regard them as a cult, others don't.
...this is the first time I've seen you tear into the Catholics with the same spirit you exhibit when going after the Mormons.hen you get to the heresy trials for Baptists who attend churches that aren't painted white, I'll check back with ya.
Baptists, Catholics, Greek Orthodox, etc. are all part of diverse Christendom.
You'll note I didn't launch into an in-depth exposition of Catholicism, i covered only one aspect...and in defense to the Catholic charge that Protestantism is "too" diverse. All I did is point out that Catholicism is diverse, too. What's wrong with that?
So...back to my counterfeit bills illustration: Some people in history haven't used a $ system (barter system). They opted out of a $money system. Likewise, you opted out of a "God system."
So just as a bartering people won't show a lick of discernment 'tween a real denominational bill vs. a counterfeit bill, a guy who's opted out of "God territory" isn't showing much discernment 'tween a counterfeit belief system vs. the genuine one...
Counterfeit bills -- by virtue of their existence -- show a genuine one exists.
Counterfeit belief systems -- by virtue of their existence -- show genuine ones exist.
And to add to my parallel illustration from my last post, if you were a bartering system type and chose NOT to use $, it would "strengthen" that "conviction no end" to watch retailers fight counterfeiters by teaching their employees to discern the difference 'tween the real thing & a fake.
So...go ahead...rail against the govt watchdogs who go after counterfeiters as well...
Even yesterday, I heard a radio ad targeting those who buy fake brand name stuff on the street...telling people that winds up costing American jobs.
So, go ahead...since you seemingly oppose all "negative" comments about the counterfeiters...start railing on those ads, as well, NS.
I mean what kind of fairy tale world do you live in if you think there's not counterfeiters across the board?
Do you think "faith life" would escape that in a world run in part by demons???
As a follow-up to my last post to you, I wanted to show you the penchant Lds leaders have had for political overreach.
Romney could have been as "pure" as could be -- integrity-wise -- in trying to "separate" his faith from politics. Yet within the hierarchy system of Mormonism, all it would take is one "request" from on high in SLC -- and there that integrity would go. Because Mormons are BOUND to honor WHATEVER their "prophet" says.
I mean did you know a survey of Mormons was taken in the early 1960s, asking them if the "prophet" told them to engage in polygamy, would they do it?
To their credit, 60% said "no"...But 40% said "yes."
Could you imagine 40% of TODAY's mainstream Mormons practicing open polygamy? All because somebody else told them...Doesn't matter if they were 100% "faithful" leading up to such an order; it's rather, all rooted in the Mormon "prophet."
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | By contrast: Roman Catholic leader (like a Pope or John F. Kennedy) | Any similar statements made by a Pope or Kennedy |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] | Kennedy made no similar vows to the Catholic church that Romney has made to the Mormon church | No comparative vow |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) | No parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | The LDS Church -- in 2001 -- thought it well to pull this quote from John Taylor to emphasize it: "The Lord...is desirous to show us how to save ourselves, how to bless ourselves temporally and spiritually, intellectually, morally, physically, POLITICALLY..." (Lds Church owned Deseret News, Nov. 19, 1865, p. 2, as quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor (2001, p. 178). Also from p. 178: "The idea of strictly religious feelings with us, and nothing else, is out of the question...Our religion is more comprehensive than that of the world...it embraces all the interests of humanity in every conceivable phrase..." (Original source: The Gospel Kingdom, 1943, p. 168) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| B.H. Roberts | LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! | “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180 | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
And there is nothing wrong with door-to-door preaching. I'm merely making the point that Mormons aren't the only ones that do it.
OK, there's a basic problem here in your language...and yeah, I know our culture keeps extending the youth culture to people in the 30s...but my recommendation is that we as a nation stop treating adults as kids...
So, let's break down a few of those "rules" placed upon Lds adult missionaries, shall we?
Rule #72: 72. Do not arise before your companion.
(one lds missionary to the other, "We will now rise in unison like robotic clones...1...2...3!")
Rule #60 Never be alone.
(Evidentiary item #1 as to how controlling the Lds church can be: "Don't be alone. Ever. For two years straight! You can't even go to the bathroom alone!")
Rule # 75 Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
("But missionary president. Honest. I was trying to obey Rule #60 perfectly when my missionary companion stepped out for a few moments...and she was the only one around...and so I had this huge moral dilemma...Do I obey rule #60 or rule #75????")
Rule #41: Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
(Evidentiary item #2 as to how controlling the Lds church is!)
Rule # 133 Do not spend more than your companion.
Ya know, if you give 9.95% of your income to the Mormon church, you have broken the law of consecration by not tithing and are ineligible for temple access. By .05% you can...miss your daughter's wedding and be kept out of God's presence forever! (Not to mention flunk becoming a full-grown god!)
Well, likewise here, what happens if you spend five cents more than your companion? Haven't you just broken rule #133? And isn't this a rule bound to be broken? So, rather than tempt their Lds missionaries into breaking #133 whenever they buy something, why don't they just make a new rule to ensure it doesn't get broken. Change rule #133 to: "Buy identical items in the same quantity." (Simple, eh?)
Rule 109. Provide community service. (keep reading)
Rule 111: Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
Likewise, if you obey Rule 109, but go 3 minutes over rule 111, you have just obeyed rule 109, but simultaneously have disobeyed rule 111! (Boy, a legalistic minefield!)
C'mon. These are adults. (Not 6th graders...In fact, these are types of rules I wouldn't give even 6th graders!)
Sorry, but nobody deems JWs as "Protestants" -- including JWs themselves.
Mormons & JWs are similar in this way in that NEITHER deem themselves to be Protestant...
They both think they're the ONLY TRUE religious "game" in town...
Documentation for Lds on that: D&C 1:30...and I can get it for you on JWs, if you like.
That's actually what's kind of strange about those who defend Mormonism.
They somehow think that Mormonism's declaration that EVERY other religious entity is false and dead is suppose to get a 100% "lay down" effect...as if nobody's going to respond to that kind of worldwide slander.
The same is true re: JWs.
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