Syrian Rebels Need No-fly Zone -- Opposition Leader

Reuters ^ | Saturday, August 11, 2012 | Hadeel Al Shalchi

[SunkenCiv]

[Additional reporting by Tom Perry in Beirut, Khaled Yacoub Oweis in Amman and Ayman Samir in Cairo; Writing by Alistair Lyon; Editing by Angus MacSwan]

A wounded Free Syrian Army commander walks through rubble in the Salaheddine neighbourhood of central Aleppo August 11, 2012. [Credit: Reuters/Goran Tomasevic]

[Parmy]

After watching Libyia, Egypt, Iran and the rest, I just have one question. Who is worse, the present governments or the other criminals who take over?

[LazloToth]

Yes they need a no-fly zone. Here are the rebels “flying” dead postal workers from the top of a building to joyous shouts of “Allahu Akbar!” as a crowd of savages rush closer to take cell phone pictures of their glorious victory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX82oQ7NgYo

[SunkenCiv]

U.S., Turkey to study Syria no-fly zone
by Hadeel Al Shalchi
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/11/us-syria-crisis-idUSBRE8610SH20120811

Turkey and US to create Syria task force
by Damien Cave
http://bostonglobe.com/news/world/2012/08/11/turkey-and-agree-accelerate-preparations-for-syria-after-fall-assad/Y36agWur1QZXFDnlM79EyN/story.html

Turkey and Iran: an unraveling relationship
by Amanda Paul
http://english.alarabiya.net/views/2012/08/12/231743.html

Turkey, Iran Show Signs of Deep Division Over Syria
by Dorian Jones
http://www.voanews.com/content/turkey_and_iran_show_signs_of_deep_division_over_syria/1484290.html

Turkey to suffer most from attack on Syria: Iran lawmaker
[Iranian agitprop]
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/08/11/255615/turkey-to-suffer-most-from-raid-on-syria/

Turkey: Assad supplying arms to Turkish Kurd militants
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-09/news/sns-rt-us-syria-crisis-turkey-kurdsbre8780qj-20120809_1_pkk-militants-foreign-minister-ahmet-davutoglu-ankara-and-damascus

Assad’s fall presents Turkey with another dilemma
by David Gardner
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e112dda6-e2d5-11e1-bf02-00144feab49a.html

Turkey And The Lost Province
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20120811.aspx

[SunkenCiv]

• Amanda Paul denies her own words, while Azerbaijani media in no hurry to publish refutation [10/28/2011]

[SunkenCiv]

Who cares? Nobody but Assad’s fanbois.

[bereanway]

My understanding is the no-fly would have already been established but for the Syrian (Russian supplied) air defenses which are too formidable.

[iopscusa]

Let’s send those heroic French and English pilots who managed to bomb a lot of innocents in Libya to man a No Fly effort where there is a 4th Generation AA System such as in Syria.

[Little Ray]

I’m on Assad’s side.
Fascists are a pretty big step up from an “Islamic Republic” or whatever follows in the wake of a Muslim Brotherhood victory.

[MasterGunner01]

I guess the Syrian rebels better get an air force. Oh, wait. Iran is on Assad’s side. Oops.

[Zhang Fei]

Who cares? Nobody but Assad’s fanbois.

When the choice is between the Tsar (Assad) and Lenin (Muslim Brotherhood), it's generally wise to choose the Tsar. You don't even have to be a fan of the Tsar to offer moral support for him. In fact, we had a regiment of doughboys on Russian soil to fight Lenin during the Russian revolution.

It boggles the mind that we're helping the greater of two evils in Syria, and that the GOP establishment is jumping in with both feet. I understand why the Democrats would want to help our sworn enemies, but its clear yet again why the GOP is called the stupid party. The principal lesson that the GOP appears to have received from 9/11 is that we must appease the Sunnis and help them smite their enemies.

[Zhang Fei]

Bashar Assad, the ruler of Syria, is part of a religious community, the Alawites, who call themselves Muslims. And yet, even as a non-Muslim observer, I think it's a stretch to call Alawites Muslims, when they believe in Ali, not Allah, as well as reincarnation. Of course, outside of Muslim countries. they'd be seen as just another quirky religion, with the usual mystical references and beliefs. In Muslim countries, this kind of heterodox belief system is frequently cause for the persecution and massacre of its followers. That's also probably the reason Alawites are standing behind Assad - Sunni Arab rule may mean the extermination of Syria's several million-strong Alawite community. From the Global Security website:

The Alawi sect, which integrates doctrines from other religions -- in particular from Christianity -- arose from a split within the Ismailite sect. The Alawis appear to be descendants of people who lived in this region at the time of Alexander the Great. When Christianity flourished in the Fertile Crescent, the Alawis, isolated in their little communities, clung to their own preIslamic religion. After hundreds of years of Ismaili influence, the Alawis moved closer to Islam. However, contacts with the Byzantines and the Crusaders added Christian elements to the Alawis' new creeds and practices. For example, Alawis celebrate Christmas, Easter, and Epiphany.

Alawis claim they are Muslims, but conservative Sunnis do not always recognize them as such. Like Ismaili Shias, Alawis believe in a system of divine incarnation. Unlike Ismailis, Alawis regard Ali as the incarnation of the deity in the divine triad. As such, Ali is the "Meaning;" Muhammad, whom Ali created of his own light, is the "Name;" and Salman the Persian is the "Gate." Alawi catechesis is expressed in the formula: "I turn to the Gate; I bow before the Name; I adore the Meaning." An Alawi prays in a manner patterned after the shahada: "I testify that there is no God but Ali." (Very Monty Python-esque, almost as if it were lifted from the Life of Brian).

According to Alawi belief, all persons at first were stars in the world of light but fell from the firmament through disobedience. Faithful Alawis believe they must be transformed seven times before returning to take a place among the stars, where Ali is the prince. If blameworthy, they are sometimes reborn as Christians, among whom they remain until atonement is complete. Infidels are reborn as animals.

The Alawites believe that Muhammad was a usurper and that it was his brother who largely worked to create a different sect apart from Christianity and Judaism.

It's kind of bizarre that as much worry as many of us in the West have over Islam, that the Alawites, a non-Muslim sect described by real Muslims as heretics/apostates and who have rejected the parts of Islam we most dislike, is being vilified in favor of the violent Sunni fundamentalists who killed 3000 Americans on 9/11, and have killed 7000 GI's since then.

[RedMDer]

[justa-hairyape]

My understanding is the no-fly would have already been established but for the Syrian (Russian supplied) air defenses which are too formidable.

This is the problem, to completely dismantle the Syrian Air Defense, NATO will need a lot of spec ops insertion to take out key facilities. Some of those facilities might have Russian officers or observers. So while NATO debates for two weeks, the Syrians and Russians know the Spec Ops are coming. If the Russians deliver S-300 systems to the Syrians, then even with spec ops insertion, NATO will still lose a significant number of aircraft. Against an enemy that is not attacking NATO. Potentially the dumbest possible move. So that is what NATO will probably do. What is holding them back right now is Mr. Present and his coming second coronation.

[gleeaikin]

OK, I’ll by the Tsar and Lenin analogy, but who is Stalin waiting in the wings?

[Zhang Fei]

OK, I’ll by the Tsar and Lenin analogy, but who is Stalin waiting in the wings?

Whomever manages to unify* Arabia under a single Caliph, thereby reconstituting the old Arab-run Caliphate of 1000 years ago. Only now, he'll have something better than the now-defunct caravan routes between the Far East and Europe that once provided a steady income - oil. And he will have Arab nationalism as well as Islamism as the glue to hold it all together. Maybe Morsi, maybe some other Muslim Brotherhood or Salafist figure.

Arabia has spent almost 1000 years under the yoke of various Turkish overlords. The idiots who make policy are hurrying its unification along. Does the West really need a massive unitary adversary on its borders? Isn't Russia a big enough threat?

* Unlike Saddam, Islam's Lenin will already identify with the troglodyte that is the Sunni Arab man on the street. In Kuwait, Saddam had to conquer and kill these troglodytes. Islam's Lenin will back them with money, arms and training to overthrow their overlords, the Gulf royalty. The difference between Assad and the Gulf kingdoms is that Assad's elite forces aren't filled with Islamists. The Gulf kingdoms are nothing but, which means they will be loathe to fire upon masses of Islamist demonstrators interspersed with armed insurgents when the time comes.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Nobody is ever going to unify Arabia under any caliph. Why do you think the Saudis support the rebels, because they want al-qaeda to overthrow them and establish a cliphate? Wrong. That will never happen. You think the King of Qatar wants to be overthrown by a caliph? Pure fantasy.

[Zhang Fei]

Nobody is ever going to unify Arabia under any caliph. Why do you think the Saudis support the rebels, because they want al-qaeda to overthrow them and establish a cliphate? Wrong. That will never happen. You think the King of Qatar wants to be overthrown by a caliph? Pure fantasy.

People in the Mid East routinely make mistakes that could have been foreseen beforehand. Maybe the desert air makes people stupid. Why did the Shah push liberalization despite the wishes of the average troglodyte Iranian, leading to his overthrow? Why did Israel push a Palestinian state despite the PLO's bloody record, and support Hamas against the PLO for much of the 80's and 90's? Did the Gulf royals support al Qaeda because they though al Qaeda would attack us on 9/11, thereby causing the American public to view Gulf royalty with a mixture of contempt and genocidal hatred? None of these things were foreseen, and yet they were foreseeable.

The problem with Gulf royalty is that they are like medieval Catholics who liked to sin and then instead of repenting, bought indulgences in order to palliate their guilt. Except the Gulf royals behave like the infidel in non-Muslim countries and salve their consciences by sending their nutcases abroad with suitcases of cash to kill the infidel, and proselytize among the foreign Muslims who are not already nutcases so that they do become nutcases, while handing out money like every day is both Eids rolled into one.

[Doofer]

More War that’s what we’re good at...

[teflon9]

Old school SAM-2s and SAM-3s? Not so formidable. And stand-off weapons can wipe out the most formidable air defense with little danger to the attacker. Hopefully, we’re not establishing a no-fly zone because we don’t want Assad and his minority Alawites replaced with Sunni wackadoos. At least Christians (and maybe the tiny Jewish community) are relatively safe under Assad. So is Israel. Since Syria’s drubbing back in 1973, the border between Syria and Israel has been as quiet as the border between NH and VT (the border between Israel and Lebanon is another story). If Islamic fundamentalists were running the show in Damascus (which I think they will—Assad took too long to suppress this insurgency), they’d be bound to try something stupid, like “liberating” the Golan.