Posted on 03/13/2012 10:43:21 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Are you so stupid as to beleive that the officer didn’t try other options? Did you not READ the article? You keep thinking that this is a nine year old. Guess what, he is in a man’s body. 5 foot 5 inches and 200 lbs. What if the guy was 18 or 20 and was mentally retarded to the age of a 9 year old?
And who was talking about using their night stick? It wasn’t me. That is an escalation above a taser. And if the taser does not work, you then use the night stick to add leverage to joint manipulation. It’s called a come along. The only problem is that now you are running the risk of permanent injury. And when people see broken arms and wrists because the person resisted, the officer gets fired or days without pay or harassed because he was doing his job.
You are acting like the officer just went up to the kid and tased him for fun.
You obviously do not know what you are talking about.
Try to put your thumb on someone thrashing about on the ground who does not want to be touched or cooperate in any way. Try to do it safely so that you dont miss and hit an eye or gouge the throat and damage the larynx. Or miss by fractions of an inch and apply too much pressure to the corotid artery causing a rupture. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1344809/ for more details.
The tactic you are proposing is far more dangerous than the use of a taser. Nothing more that arm chair quarter backing.
You couldn’t be more wrong. This is how I was trained and used the method first hand. It worked/works like a charm. Pain compliance moves are a legit, legal and effective part of the force continuum. The pressure point I described takes very little force to gain compliance. Can’t imagine severing an artery, that’s just idiotic.
They are going to disband the police department.
My town where I lived did that when the cops turned on the residents - especially the kids - one too many times. They were pretty surprised! They had too much money from outside town and too many cops given the amount of real crime going on. That settled that little problem.
We both agree that pain compliance are legit, letal and effect part of the force continuum. Further, based on your recommendation to use pain compliance, you agree that pain compliance was required in this situation. So what is really the disagreement is the use of which technique. Read the article that I supplied. Corotid artery blunt trama has a 23% Mortality rate - that is high enough to take it into the leathal force category. Compare that to the taser http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3800082. The documented mortality rate for taser in this study is <2%.
So lets go back to the force continuum. Use the least amount of force to acheive compliance that causes the least injury or risk of death. That is why there are limits on things like choke holds and sleeper holds. And no, we are not talking about severing the artery. All that was necssary was trama such as the applying of too much blunt force. Taser mortality rates are extreamly low. The mortality rate for corotid artery trama is extreamly high.
Yes I have kids and Yes, it is far better that the boy learn that if he does not control himself, someone else will.
One of the issues here is that his almost man never learned to respect authority, never learned to submit to his mother, never learned to obey his teachers, never learned that if he gets out of hand someone will come and put him back in his place. Unfortunatly, he had to receive a life lesson. Hopefully he will learn from it. Most criminals walk this path of disrespect to authority do not ever learn that lesson. I agree that there was a long overdue parental moment that likely never happened.
And who said anything about being hyped on steriods, or on a power trip? So let me ask you this. Do you think the 9 year old need a good spanking? Do you believe that the application of some pain here to get the boy to comply was appropriate? I hope you would. Now guess what, just about every action in the pain compliance measures has a risk of injury or death. So now think about this from a police officer who knows that every action he takes is going to be reviewed by a lawyer for the opportunity to file a lawsuit.
The officer already tried to pull the boy’s arms out and cuff him without success. So what now? Choke hold? Sleeper? Kick him? Pull your belt off and beat him? Punch him? Spray him with pepper spray? Use your night stick to force his arms out? Come on.... man up. Chose one of the techniques above or supply your own. If you are going to Monday night quarter back go all in.
But let me give you a hint. The force continuum is studied and restudied and looked at every year. The risk of death or permanent injury for each one of those actions above is GREATER than that of the taser. Some of the techniques listed above has a mortality rate that is over 20%. Studies of tasers fired on criminals show less than 2% mortality.
So lets get down to brass tacks ... what would you have done that was not already done?
Another dumbass comment
She'll be a dangerous woman someday! :)
I also vigorously disagree that use of a stun gun is lower on the force continuum than the use of a pain compliance hold.
I disagree that the police officer did the right thing in this instance, that he had better options available to him and the reason he did not utilize them was most likely due to not knowing about them i.e. lack of training.
If his training was so poor perhaps it is the best thing for the dept to be eliminated.
I disagree with you referring to me as an armchair quarterback who clearly does not know what they are talking about.
I will be glad to accept your apology on this last point =)
Not a problem. I don’t know what he tried and neither do you.But if he can’t calm a 9 year old he might want to look into some other work. The “man sized BOY” put his arms up...wow. He did not initiate an attack. he did not do anything except a normal protective reaction. He was a truant, not a criminal.
The cop was wrong. period.
lets dissect your statements...
1) One of the issues here is that this almost man never learned to respect authority.
He is NINE years old.. he cannot even spell authority, let alone tell you what it means... you are an idiot.
2) Who said anything about being hyped up on steroids
I know personally a number of police officers. The particularly nasty ones almost all use steroids, and lack basic reasoning skills. If you cannot outhink a NINE YEAR OLD and resort to taser, then you are nasty and lack basic reasoning skills. The leap to roid rage is not that far a jump.
3) The officers already tried to pull the boys arms out and cuff him.
This is the first time you have admitted that this was a boy, a NINE YEAR OLD boy. The simple fact that this roid rage induced so called officer was going to arrest, handcuff, transport and process as a prisoner a NINE YEAR OLD BOY HAVING A TEMPER TANTRUM tells me everything I need to know.
If you support this action, and the actions of the officer, then you sir need to take some basic reasoning skills classes, because you cannot outthink a nine year old.
At nine years old, I most certainly respected authority because my parents and teachers taught it to me. All three of my children were the raised the same way. And out of that respect, I very rarely had to spank my children. The spankings came exactly when they were throwing a fit. The fact that the VAST MAJORITY of nine year olds who obey the rules and respect their parents and teachers proves that it is not only possible for a nine year old to respect authority that it should be the NORMAL EXPECTED BEHAVIOR.
A boy who is 5 foot five and weighs 200 pounds is physically a MAN.
I do support this officers actions for one major reason, his mother, who was present at the time and witnessed everything, thought the officers actions were reasonable. Another reason is that the boy who does not obey the rules of his parents and teachers grows up to be the man who does not obey the rules of society. This officer's actions has hopefully taught the boy a important lesson.
You are of the liberal mind set that says any thing goes and the little tyke is just acting out or throwing a fit and that we should respect their feelings and just reason with the little darlings. Bull! That kind of thinking produces sociopaths that grow up (though there is very little grow left in this man-child) into criminals. That is a major part of what is wrong with our society today. There is no room for coddling here and you refuse to see the facts that the officer and the mother talked with the boy and tried reason - IT DIDN'T WORK. Also tolerating a temper tantrum is encouraging the behavior. And that is the exact last thing that was needed at that moment.
No, he is not physically a man; he is physically a large boy.
This 9 year old boy is not a dangerous gang member, rapist or murderer. He is a kid who was truant from school. The cop’s rationale for dealing with him should not be “treat him like any common criminal”.
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