Posted on 02/19/2012 6:49:38 PM PST by Hunton Peck
You never know, may be we get lucky and Egypt will keep them both..hmmm?
You never know, may be we get lucky and Egypt will keep them both..hmmm?
China accused Western countries of stirring civil war in Syria...
The Obama administration through Hillary Clinton wants Assad out ,so they are supporting the terrorists. - tom
Russia and China
I phrased the question to elicit contemplation, not as a complaint. I actually am pleased with Israel's communication and publicity efforts.
I hoped the reader would logic that Israel does not complain because it would do no good, the Obama Rat administration and the American left is bent on accomplishing the official US withdrawal of support from Israel.
I believe Israel is looking for a strong stabilizing force to replace America's waning respect, influence and moral authority in the Middle East. A Russian-Chinese coalition may be that force. US policy isn't going in the right direction, and Russia-China want stability and an end to the violence with these established governments continuing and not falling to the Muslim Brotherhood.
that's certainly Russia and China but I’d say it’s more over arms sales and port access than simply “stability”.
Russia loves to sell arms, but I see it as less important than you do.
Selling arms puts the customer nation more under the seller's control, control Russia plans to use to put a damper on the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood and Grand Caliphate. Russia intends to keep Arabia Balkanized and eventually control the oil, much of which will go to China.
" This coalition is universally condemned by all the same entities that condemn Israel.” Well, I could have said "Western entities", and made it easier, but the point is that the Western left, EU, UN, NATO all condemn Israel, Russia (and the Slavs), and China, there is serious antisemitism in these groups.
I believe that Russia and China have made it clear that they will use serious force on Muslims numerous times in recent history. Muslims believe both Russia and China will use nuclear weapons on them, if they provoke it.
HELLO?
Russia and China are arming and enabling Iran and Syria (who are arming Hezbullah). And Russia routinely plays the hard card with the “Quartet”.
Absolutely true, and a couple of points. Russia has armed everybody they can since about 1920, China since about 1950, and Israel still hasn't complained much about it (as I mentioned previously). So has everybody else armed everybody else.
Russia and China are not anti Israel, they are (individually) pro Russia and China.
American, EU, and UN foreign policy, resolve and moral authority are in a shambles, Israel has given as much as they can and gotten nothing, someone needs to step up, and it won't be Obama or a Rat.
b/ American Jews (Admittedly mostly jinos) have some sway over American policy re Israel and the middle east. Granted it’s not always the RIGHT sway (for Israel NOR for America) but when push comes to shove, I believe Israel knows America will not (for the above and other reasons) ever undertake to put large numbers of U.S. troops on the ground next to or in Israel, on either side of the Green Line.
I truly do not understand Jewish lack of unity regarding Israel, but for the pro Islam Western left, American troops between Israel and proto Caliphate states are completely unnecessary.
Look to recent American leftist military campaign history, we use air power to prevent the side we oppose from being able to defend itself from the side we support. The left doesn't put identifiable troops on the ground for the most part as American citizen tolerance for war rapidly fades from an original low point in those campaigns. The left stands off and bombs the out of favor group and anyone else in the area into submission. The American public largely tolerates this because of the MSM.
The Clinton Administration did exactly this in Serbia-Kosovo, while arming and supporting the most reprehensible Muslim terrorists on the planet, the drug running, White slave, kidnap for ransom KLA who genocided the Serbs in Kosovo, and then allowed the UN to run the White slave and organ trafficking rackets themselves.
The Obama administration did exactly the same operation on Libya, just passing an even bigger lie in that campaign. The so called "no fly zone" was actually major offensive air support for the Muslim Brotherhood troops. All Muslim Brotherhood successes billed as the "Arab spring" "democracy" movement have been the result of serious US support without identifiable US troops on the ground.
It is important to note that Russia and China abstained from voting and VETOING the "no fly zone" the US requested for the Libyan "de escalation" initiative. Russia and China were promised by the Obama administration that there would not be air support for the "rebels", and the US would demand the "rebels" negotiate a truce.
Obama lied, as usual, and both Russia and China noticed (to put it mildly). That is the reason Russia, China and several other nations have voted against and vetoed any UN or US support activity in Syria.
A little history here, Russia was snubbed by Clinton-NATO on the Serbian campaign because they were weak and recovering at the time. Putin brought Russian strength back a substantial amount and also engineered an object lesson for the US and NATO in their Georgian operation using strategy and tactics nearly identical to Clinton's in Serbia. Putin humiliated NATO and the US. In Libya, Obama could no longer ignore the Russians so he deceived them, he will only do it once.
with China or Russia, Israel has no similar leverage, and can obviously not even consider those countries has having any semblance of a moral compass to avoid pushing a full scale war with Israel.
Good point, but consider this, Russia and China are both recovering from Communism where they had an all time low in moral/ethical attributes. Russia has been improving for the past 20 years and is again friendly towards Christianity, she is going in the right direction. China not so much, but they are younger in the cycle. As far as making war on Israel, why when they can make trade? Israel is a vibrant economy with lots of skill and technology, the Russians would gain by partnering with 'em and China would (at least) like to steal from 'em. I'd bet both would just like to DO BUSINESS for profit with Israel, and Israel is fully capable of handling that competition.
a/ The last thing this world needs is a concrete Russian Chinese coalition.
Maybe, but it's the Western left that has motivated such a coalition. While US and EU policy may have some remaining moral scruples, it's direction is significantly opposed to the Russian direction.
Respectfully, I did not ignore item (a). My wording was: "...the pro Islam Western left, American troops...". I am speaking precisely, not trying to lay word traps for you.
I perceive a significant difference between US policy and supporting actions executed by American leftists and that executed by either President Bush or President Reagan.
While neither Bush is a Conservative, they are far from leftists, and are honorable and courageous men. Neither would conceive of or allow US troops to be used against Israel, therefore those troops in Iraq and Afghanistan were opposed by the Western left, generally speaking, certainly they would be unable to use them against Israel.
(b) Obama’s own UN Ambassador (among others of her ilk) have been pushing for years for U.S./ NATO/ UN troops in “Palestine” to “buffer” the schmuckistinians…
Absolutely true, and extremely troubling, however the bad guys can learn and change tactics.
The DemoRats found that their quagmire Vietnam war destroyed their public image, LBJ and Rat presidential aspirations for about a decade. (Not arguing legitimacy, just result) So Clinton (the bent one) and Obama both being proficient cowards tried to figure a way to use military force without rapid loss of public support.
To the coward's delight, stand off and bomb fit the bill. Notice how Obama now happily pops whoever he pleases with drones while pulling troops off the ground for publicity points. Bush put troops on the ground to pick the terrorists out of the non-combatant civilians, leaving them mostly unharmed. He also paid the public relations price of American killed and wounded.
I would argue that Obama chose his UN Ambassador because she is anti Israel as general policy, not for the specific idea of positioning US troops to protect Pali terrorists. She doesn't care about Obama's public opinion polls, but Obama does, he won't put US troops between the Palis and Israel. All he has to do is arm the Muslim Brotherhood which will morph into the Army of the Caliphate, every non Jewish male in the Middle East.
...for U.S./ NATO/ UN troops in “Palestine”...
This again so I can point out how the Russia, China and aligned nations veto completely monkey wrenches the UN and a large part of the NATO threat here, exposing Obama further. The US will be alone, no clever ways of disguising who is doing the killing.
Clinton and then BUSH (!) actually had U.S. General Zinni TRAINING THE PLO’s ARMY....
Well, we know both Clintons are so far left that communists come to mind, and Bush is a "mark" as the grifters would say.
Which is…? Whats good for Russia… which means dominating the oil suppliers and routes…
YES! To be perfectly clear, ABSOLUTELY YES, Russia should do exactly what is in the best interest of Russia. I have been shouting this for some time, as well as shouting some corollaries.
Israel should do what is in the best interest of Israel, and she has every right to do so.
The United States should do what is in the best interest of the United States, and she also has every right to do so.
Here is the fun part, nations can often find common best interests.
The permanent prevention of the ascendancy of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Grand Caliphate is a common best interest of the United States, Israel, Russia, China, and pretty much the entire planet INCLUDING Muslims.
There you have it.
PS, I can't figger out Catholics either.
...as we all know, the jihadis would shoot and scoot and then hide behind the U.S. troops daring the IDF to come after them.
Agreed.
Obama lied, as usual, and both Russia and China noticed (to put it mildly). That is the reason Russia, China and several other nations have voted against and vetoed any UN or US support activity in Syria.
It can't be proven, of course, but there are indications that Gaddafi was set up to be murdered, that he was on his way to what he'd been told by the "Nato Allies" was a meeting where he could make a deal to get out of the country. Instead, they told the rebels where they could ambush his convoy and provided air support for it. Gaddafi was many things but he was not stupid, and knowing the air surveillance capabilities of our military, would not have been out in the desert in such an exposed position without good reason.
What the Obama regime has accomplished in three short years is to completely destroy any trust in the word of the United States of America. Nobody trusts us now, not our enemies, and especially not our (former)friends. Even worse, they know we can't even be trusted to do what's obviously in our own best interests.
Our lack of trustworthiness is not just rooted in dishonesty, or even evil, but in a large measure of insanity. That's the source of the attitude and position of Russia and China you're describing.
Absolute proof exists that US/NATO "no fly" air power attacked and disabled Gaddafi's vehicles, heavier weapons, and much of his security rendering him defenseless against the pack of animals that murdered him.
The purpose was to make sure no future Libyan oil production was redirected to China, as contracted; to deliver Libyan gold into the hands of the World Bank and IMF, instead of Gaddafi's many victims; and to "liberate" as many of his weapons stores as possible for Muslim Brotherhood use against Israel.
What the Obama regime has accomplished in three short years is to completely destroy any trust in the word of the United States of America. Nobody trusts us now, not our enemies, and especially not our (former)friends. Even worse, they know we can't even be trusted to do what's obviously in our own best interests.
This is possibly the single most significant victory for America's enemies in our history. Even if Obama and the Rats are completely swept from power, this cannot be fixed.
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