Debt, division hobbling Minnesota Republican Party

pioneer press ^ | 12-7-11 | ap

[WOBBLY BOB]

RINO jackwagons from the Arne Carlson wing of the party again ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Timber Rattler]

Tne GOP is looking more and more like the old Whig Party every day.

[Prokopton]

RINO jackwagons from the Arne Carlson wing of the party again ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The party is run by those who get involved. More conservatives get involved, the party becomes more conservative. Conservatives don't get involved and let the establishment run things, the party is less conservative.

[MplsSteve]

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[DManA]

What’s your position in the party?

[WorkingClassFilth]

I suppose what you say is true over time if enough effort is put into tearing down the old structure. Fact is, the ‘R’ party in Minnesota has been in turmoil for all of the years I have been involved in MN politics (~35 yrs.) and the social liberal/questionably fiscal conservative wing has always retained control while the Constitutional conservative wing has always done the leg work.

I'll also grant you that things have been changing - some - but it seems to be mostly window dressing. When Ron Eberhadt left, conservatives hoped for change; we got it, but it wasn't conservative. In party wrangling, over and over, it has been the RINO element that continues to triumph largely supported by good, but uninformed, workers that want to maintain the status quo (in their minds America) while trusting in the ‘conservatism’ of the ‘R’ establishment.

In reality, true conservatives are little more than water boys and girls. Take Bachman for example, if she didn't have homegrown support and external conservative funding, she'd be an also ran and the ‘R's would likely run a moderate (read: read 1970’s liberal). This trend runs all the way to the RNC.

Time after time I have witnessed deceit and RHIP corruption like: infighting on rule changes to allow greater rank and file influence (once at a 2:30 am meeting); party leadership inserting its favorites in leadership roles; idiotic measures supported and carried by party leadership (i.e.: the smoking ban); changes made in the national party platform against rank and file will and contrary to party constitution principles (McCain's insertion of GW nonsense into the agenda); the continued resistance at all levels of party leadership to enforce a platform based agenda to be carried out by ALL endorsed candidates; Roe v.Wade support at all levels in the party - tacitly, if not openly; endless social engineering projects that are “OK” because we're Republicans; etc.

Frankly, I have finally left the ‘R's as a working member because I have reached and point and age where I am pursuing principle - not pragmatism. Pragmatism is a trap for manipulation if your leadership doesn't really subscribe to the values they are supposed to endorse and carry forward. If the nation fails because my efforts and those of thousands (perhaps millions) like me are not concrete enough or lacking broad coalition support, then it fails. No, scratch that; it won't be a failure of conservatism that destroys the nation because of ideologues like me, it will actually be a triumph of those whose political philosophies are built on compromise and popular values.

I say let the Pyrrhic victory be theirs.

[Prokopton]

What’s your position in the party?

Although I have been a delegate to the State Convention several times, I won't know until the Caucuses and County and District Conventions.

[Prokopton]

I don't disagree with your analysis. If I am to have any effect, however, I must work towards some goal, either within the Republican party or another party. I can see legitimacy to either approach but, as you pointed out, if I am in the minority, either way will be an uphill battle.

[DManA]

So you haven’t actually “run” anything. They do let you argue about stuff in the platform. The last time a candidate read the platform was about 1962.

[DManA]

One reason the party is a joke is because the caucus system in Mn is a joke. It does nothing but breed cynicism.

It needs to be replaced because a great state deserves better.

And I understand that primaries have problems too. What about a compromise? For the selection of candidates (which is really all anyone cares about) a binding vote and only people who have attended 3 consecutive caucuses are allowed to vote.

[Prokopton]

So you haven’t actually “run” anything. They do let you argue about stuff in the platform. The last time a candidate read the platform was about 1962.

You do know that in MN, delegates selected at the County and State convention are who determine which candidate gets endorsed? There is no presidential primary.

[DManA]

No sir. The delegates to the convention who are selected at the state convention pick the candidate. Correct me if I am wrong but I understand these delegates are completely free actors at the convention. County convention attendees are two steps away from any power. Caucus attendees are merely chumps.

[DManA]

The delegates to the NATIONAL convention I should have said.

[WorkingClassFilth]

By all means, attend your BPOU and get elected as a delegate to district and county levels. If you do, you’ll likely go to the state convention, too. That way, you can help foster more conservative candidates, platforms and internal policy. However, be aware that any real avenue to power is controlled by the party and there is a path to being ‘made’ by the system and it lies in being docile and supportive and tireless in supporting leadership (kissing the ring) and party policy and candidates.

Years ago, I quit working for candidates just because they sported a newly minted ‘R’ by their names. Likewise, I quit giving time and money to the party. I now donate solely to individuals and causes in which I believe. Sometimes the pubbies are with me, sometimes not. Nonetheless, I am supporting what I believe even if it threatens the ‘system’ that is supposed to support what I believe. Odd and contrary, but at least I sleep without regrets. Even my useless donations to Herman Cain were made without regret and remain that way. I cannot say the same for my support of Tim Pawlenty, the MN pubbies or any of the usual suspects in their line-up. Paraphasing Madame Thatcher, vote your conscience, but don’t go wobbly when it counts.

BTW, if you do want to be a delegate and begin party work, you might find my strategy useful: Always say the most conservative things you can in your biographical paragraph. Activists within the party will give you their votes and the hacks will not. Most RINO’s, RAT plants and middle of the road weenies with say stuff like ‘I want to give back’ or some such nonsense. Say that you want the left taken out with the trash and American restored to our Constitutional glory. Principled voters are hungry for straight words and are expecting straight actions; don’t let them down.

[WorkingClassFilth]

Those things would certainly clean up the casual RAT infiltration problem and the issue of sending people up to do the will of the people as set down in the platform. We do, however, have need of fresh blood being taken up into the system (from the BPOU) who care about doing something. If they have to go to caucus for six years before they can vote, that will put a great damper on truly useful people.

[DManA]

Every caucus I have attended, anyone who wanted to could go to the county convention. There was always more slots then people who attended.

Also at every caucus (which I go to for the socializing) I have met someone like you who was active in the party but is now like you, sadder but wiser.

[Prokopton]

No sir. The delegates to the convention who are selected at the state convention pick the candidate. Correct me if I am wrong but I understand these delegates are completely free actors at the convention. County convention attendees are two steps away from any power. Caucus attendees are merely chumps.

Cucuses elect delegates to the County convention. County conventions elect delegates to the District and State conventions. District Conventions elect delegates to the National Convention. The State Convention also elects "at large" delegates to the National Convention. The Party can bind delegates to the National Convention only on the first ballot but they do not have to bind them at all.

[DManA]

Exactly my point. The only people with any power are the delegates to the National Convention. And your chances of getting there are virtually nil.

[Prokopton]

The only people with any power are the delegates to the National Convention. And your chances of getting there are virtually nil.

If you don't go to the caucus, your chance of going to the National convention is nil.

I've got no problems with people who don't want to get involved with parties. Let's face it, the Republican Party is a mess. On the other hand, it doesn't make much sense to bitch about something you have made the decision not to be involved with.

[DManA]

Don’t let me discourage you. Go for it tiger. I wish you luck.

I’ve been bitching about the caucus system for 15 years. I bring it up at every caucus I attend.