It's too bad people can't, or won't, read Cain's entire plan.
They'd rather jump to conclusions and make unsubstantiated and idiotic statements.
Posted on 10/13/2011 8:30:53 AM PDT by Watchdog85
So it’s your word against one of the fathers of supply side economics. Not that you don’t have valid points but I’m guessing he does too even if he didn’t share them. Since I don’t know your background I assume he has more to lose from endorsing an economic plan than you do. Nothing personal I’m sure you are extremely intelligent but it’s a matter of credentials.
I’m guessing Milton Friedman would also agree with Laffer but since he’s not alive we’ll never know. Maybe the Friedman Institute at the UoC will weigh in with an opinion.
Fair point but then you can say that of ANY tax plan proposed, even a flat tax. I’d rather take my chances while waiting on an amendment than live with the job killing abomination we have right now.
I would also assume they would be smart enough to require a 2/3 majority to change the 2/3 majority requirement. But maybe I’m giving them too much credit.
Your point is very valid.
Cain is 100% Black as opposed to the other guy being half White. Result will be a splitting of the Black vote for the first 100% African American President. Just say-in!
Cain’s tax plan is for the federal level, as I understand it. Would state and local income and sales taxes remain in effect?
A lot of people are complaining that this will be the 29-29-29 plan before long. Any tax plan is subject to increases.
You can worry about 9-9-29, but not 20-20-20.
the ONLY real concern I have is that, as others have posted, what happens if the DEMS regain all three branches of government? What stops them from jacking tax rates?
Either Democrats will never get control, or will start running on “won’t increase taxes” platforms.
Now, Cain comes along, and he’s going to tax my already-taxed savings at 9%, when I go to spend it. How is that “fair”?
On the plus side, the mortgage interest (MI) deduction gives richer people a leg up because they get a bigger MI deduction since they have a bigger marginal tax rate. So maybe that is a good thing.
Actually the Laffer Curve would prevent a 9-9-29. At some point you would tax consumption to the point of reducing revenue. What the true number is depends on how much economic activity results from the other two numbers. If the economy is going gangbusters and incomes rise then spending is likely to rise up until the price no longer justifies the expenditure. That would in turn affect sales and I can guarantee corporations will be concerned with falling sales.
They are all linked together, we already pay higher prices by way of the corporate tax (a cost to production). This just makes the entire cost of government transparent.
I like it a whole lot!
He’s like 71 years old, so I’m not sure what he has to lose at this point.
Plus, I have a feeling is is correct in the long-term. If we HAD a tax system more like 9-9-9, it would be better. I’m not opposed to eliminating deductions — deductions distort the system, and give government power.
I don’t think the 9-9-9 itself are the numbers that will actually get the money we need, but my issue with the plan are those I mentioned. And they are mostly near to mid-term issues.
I do doubt that immediate implementation of the 9-9-9 plan would lead to immediate economic growth, because the change to the fundamental economics of everything would be like an earthquake, rocking the existing economic engine. I think it would take us at least a couple of years to recover.
I believe an incremental approach would be best, but I don’t know how you incrementally replace one system with an entirely new system.
I would note that the 9-9-9 is itself a sub-optimal answer, by Cain’s OWN analysis. It’s a compromise he has already accepted before we even start from the FairTax he actually supports, because he doesn’t think politically he can get FairTax.
But that means TWO disruptions. Plus, if 9-9-9 works “pretty well”, what economic push would there be to overcome the political obstacles of going to the Fairtax?
And I still disagree that the existing tax code has any real contribution to our current economic woes. It is a general drag on the system, and a different tax code may be a different, lesser drag, but that’s like saying you can get another mile per hour out of your sailboat by replacing the sails, when the real problem is your mast is broken.
As to my credentials, I have none. Laffer is an expert, I am a guy who got an A in economics at college. But I do think I am pretty smart, and I can evaluate how a plan will impact things, and my argument is more about the real effects of radical CHANGE.
I also doubt Laffer is looking at the political ramifications of eliminating deductions, or of changing Social Security to a government welfare program.
BTW, the day Cain is our nominee, the democrats will call 9-9-9 a plan to eliminate Social Security. And since Cain is on record for privatization of social security, and since his 9-9-9 plan also will re-tax retirement savings, and will tend to hit old people harder than young people, I believe they will be able to sink him with that line of argument.
Again, that’s a political argument.
I’m hoping he has a political component to his 9-9-9 plan to address the typical FUD the left (and even some “conservatives”) is likely to engage in. Predictably it will be: Poor and elderly hit the hardest, rich will not pay their fair share, corporations would get a huge tax cut, etc.
It doesn’t take much intellect to see where they will take the argument. The question is will Americans buy it if he has the charisma to sell it and people actually want to believe in him.
Not many people share our understanding of economics and of those who do often ignore the basics to satisfy their political viewpoint.
I’m a big believer in the Fair Tax but also understand the realities of trying to implement such a system. I think Americans have lost their spirit to the point that we may never enact any meaningful change until its too late.
I pay 9% tax on crap I buy to re-sell. Currently I pay no tax because its wholesale.
Wholesalers, distributors, retailers and businesses buying raw materials and items for re-sale do not pay tax. They send tax exemption certificates to their suppliers.
Cain's proposed sales tax is a retail consumer, consumption tax.
Right on, brother.
Isn't it amazing how folks throw around the term "VAT Tax" and haven't a clue what it means?
Facts? Let's see them.
“Okay, maybe I am an idiot, but someone ‘splain to me.
I pay 9% tax on crap I buy to re-sell. Currently I pay no tax because its wholesale.
Cain’s proposed sales tax is a retail consumer, consumption tax.”
Yup, caught that finally, in the original format earlier in this thread, that part was not visible to my feeble eyes.
But, in the end I will still end up paying more taxes. The way things are now, as a table top capitalist, we end up paying very little in taxes due to our deductions.
So the devil is in the details. That, and now I will be enlisted as an agent of the Federal Government to collect taxes from the population.
It is bad enough now, cause when folks come to a fair, they DO NOT want to pay sales tax. They think its a TAX FREE environment and start cursing when I charge them tax. Many times I am forced to pick up the sales tax to make the sale. Now I gotta pick up an extra 10 percent? Now I got the Federal Government looking over my shoulder for its sales tax money as well as state governments?
You clock punchers may think its all just fine and dandy, but its just more paper work and more telephone calls to dumb bureaucrats who can’t figure anything out.
I’s just me-—I don’t have employees, I don’t have a team of accountants to pour over everything, every document.
I would just as soon scrape everything and just have tariffs charged on incoming goods and on whiskey and rum too! :)
It's too bad people can't, or won't, read Cain's entire plan.
They'd rather jump to conclusions and make unsubstantiated and idiotic statements.
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