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DOJ: Feds Can Tell Church Who Its Ministers Will Be
Townhall ^ | 10/12/2011 | Terry Jeffrey

Posted on 10/12/2011 11:27:49 AM PDT by Dr. White

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To: Pride in the USA; Stillwaters
The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod told the court in its brief that its views on the ministry and the settlement of disputes may not be "widely shared" or "widely understood." "But," the church said, "they have been the views of orthodox Lutherans for centuries."

Acting Deputy Solicitor General Leondra Kruger told the court, during oral arguments, that the federal government should be able to trump the church on these decisions.

What is at stake is the First Amendment and the religious freedom of all Americans.

If the Obamanation gets another term, they will make at least a couple of Supreme Court appointments. If that happens, we will have passed the point of no return.

21 posted on 10/12/2011 11:50:46 AM PDT by lonevoice (The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers, impeach we much. We will much about that be committed.)
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To: Dr. White

Hey, any “separation of church and state liberals” want to chime in?

*Crickets*


22 posted on 10/12/2011 11:50:55 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Dr. White

German Churches and the Nazi State
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005206


23 posted on 10/12/2011 11:56:43 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Better to ask forgiveness than permission.)
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To: Dr. White

Worshipping Almighty God is considered noxious to Iman hussein Soetero, son of Perdition!


24 posted on 10/12/2011 11:58:43 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Dr. White

I’m and old geezer here, so maybe I’m just a little too far over the hill to get this, but is there something contrary about Americans United calling for separation of church and state and then saying the state should decide who shall be the ministers in the church? Somebody help me please.


25 posted on 10/12/2011 12:16:02 PM PDT by navyblue (<u>)
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To: sojourner
This isn’t about religion. It should be about this woman being physically unable to perform her job so the school hired a replacement. If there’s a case there, fine. Why are we dragging the religious element into it?

The 'religious element' is inherent in the nature of the case when the defendant is a church. Not a cult, but a centuries-old, relatively 'liberal' Protestant church, at that. Cheryl Perich, the plaintiff, argues that the church violated various civil right-based laws and rules by replacing her after she had been effectively ordained ('called', in Lutheran church parlance) to be a minister. Unfortunately, due to Perich's apparently temporary inability to perform her teaching duties (narcolepsy) she was replaced as a teacher and, later, no longer afflicted with narcolepsy she was not able to regain her position (which had already been filled) so, she sued.

When she sued the church (her former employer) she violated church orthodoxy and was, in effect, relieved of her ministerial status as well as her job. Churches should be able to maintain this authority to select or dismiss those they employ on the basis of their adherence (or refusal to adhere) to the church's traditional code of conduct. In this case, as in many Protestant churches, filing a lawsuit against the church in the secular courts was grounds for the woman's dismissal from her ministerial position. I maintain that if a mainline, Protestant church cannot choose it's teachers and ministers without government intervention, religious freedom is lost.

26 posted on 10/12/2011 12:16:22 PM PDT by Jim Scott
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To: Dr. White
Americans United for Separation of Church and State .... have filed briefs siding with the Obama administration against the church.

I understand what those words mean, but that makes no sense.

27 posted on 10/12/2011 12:33:27 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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To: Dr. White

RE: DOJ: Feds Can Tell Church Who Its Ministers Will Be

China decides who the official Bishop of the Chinese Catholic church will be or who the Dalai Lama should be.

You can’t have a church unless you are recognize by their Three Self Movement.

China also has a thriving undergound Christian Church.

Maybe we’re going to be like China soon...


28 posted on 10/12/2011 12:41:36 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: chris37
I think I’m just about ready to move to Russia.

Just stay put, it's coming here!

29 posted on 10/12/2011 12:42:48 PM PDT by Reagan is King
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To: sheik yerbouty

He is too stupid to be the “son of Pedition”. The horned one would never in a billion years waste his time on Barry...who likes ice cream, plays golf, and uses terms like “I won” and “wee weed up”.


30 posted on 10/12/2011 12:48:56 PM PDT by Soothesayer9
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To: G Larry
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the type of action that the Danbury Baptists were worried about when they pleaded with then President Jefferson. Furthermore, opposing this ruling would be the proper interpretation of his (Jefferson) “separation of church and state” correspondence.
31 posted on 10/12/2011 12:50:58 PM PDT by ASU_94
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To: Dr. White
Americans United for Separation of Church and State and American Atheists, Inc. have filed briefs siding with the Obama administration against the church.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations, and the American Center for Law and Justice are among those who have filed briefs supporting the Lutherans.

Now, I've got to wonder if the Catholic, Mormon and Jew haters who frequent so many of these forms will pass up this opportunity to side with the Atheists against their real enemies.

32 posted on 10/12/2011 1:07:55 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Reagan is King

Yeah, but at least their leader isn’t a ***got.


33 posted on 10/12/2011 1:22:30 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Charles Henrickson; lightman

Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod being told who to hire??


34 posted on 10/12/2011 1:29:50 PM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Dear God, thanks for the rain, but please let it rain more in Texas. Amen.)
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To: Dr. White

Hate to say it, but I feel O’Bummer is correct on this one. Nullification is not a part of the remedy available to Lutheran Pastors in order to remove their ordination. They have due process procedures in their own rules that must be followed.

If they follow their procedures, then they can do it. But, the process is not retroactive unless the ordination was done through fraudulent representation.


35 posted on 10/12/2011 1:30:27 PM PDT by tired&retired
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To: massgopguy

It has basically come full circle for the LCMS(lutheran church missouri synod). The german immigrants who came to America that established this denomination came here because the German state was telling them how they needed to worship. Now the US Government is doing the same to them again. Where do I go now?


36 posted on 10/12/2011 1:32:04 PM PDT by scbison
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To: Jim Scott
relatively 'liberal' Protestant church

The Missouri Synod Lutherans I know are among the most conservative people I know. It's the ELCA's that are liberals. Not that it matters in this case.

37 posted on 10/12/2011 1:37:10 PM PDT by workerbee (We're not scared, Maobama -- we're pissed off!)
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To: Dr. White

More government overreach despite the First Amendment. Freedom of religion?

Sadly, this kind of overreach is typical. We’ve had an advancing wave of this kind of tyranny under most governments we’ve had lately, but it’s greatly advanced under this one.


38 posted on 10/12/2011 1:39:27 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: tired&retired

That’s very nice, but these “ministers” are not ordained clergy; they’re merely elementary school teachers. To be a teacher in an LCMS school, one must receive requisite theological training and be “called” by the congregation supporting the school. The ministry of an LCMS teacher is limited to his or her duties as a teacher, much as, say, the duties of an extraordinary minister in the Catholic Church is limited to assisting in distribution of the communion host.


39 posted on 10/12/2011 1:41:10 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: massgopguy

“A “separation of church and state” group wants the government running churches?”

The Left has always been about “how to fool them today,” including outright lies to hide what they are really up to. They don’t really care about “separation of church and state”, they care about indoctrination BY the state, schools and any other means possible.

Anyone who doesn’t know that that phrase is not constitutional can look to the deliberate agenda of Americans not even knowing their own heritage.

Or taking the trouble to homeschool their own children.

Use it or lose it. That is what Americans have been doing for a long time, not USING it.

Freedom!


40 posted on 10/12/2011 1:42:43 PM PDT by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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