Posted on 10/05/2011 4:44:16 PM PDT by ebysan
Here is one by Liberal Law Scholar Lawrence B. Solum before he tried to re-write it after it was pointed out to him his definition didn't fit Obama.
Here is a quote:
"What was the original public meaning of the phrase that establishes the eligibility for the office of President of the United States? There is general agreement on the core of its meaning. Anyone born on American soil whose parents are citizens of the United States is a "natural born citizen."
Here is another By John Yinger which goes into depth on the topic.(Quoting Morse)
The act is declaratory: but the reason that such children are natural born remains; that is, their American citizenship is natural -- the result of parentage -- and is not artificial or acquired by compliance with legislative requirements.
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On the other hand, one of the prominent Republican senators stated an actual rule: “What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born in the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” [Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Senate Judiciary Committee, Oct 5, 2004] There’s no record of any disagreement with Senator Hatch on that point.
That is a common fallacy. Should I be surprised to learn that a Senator possesses the same erroneous knowledge as do many?
Here it was you, not me, who brought it up. When it turns out that civics textbooks refute what you claim to have learned — and you cannot find a single one that supports you — you turn around and say it is irrelevant.
I said the one piece of evidence was better than the other, not that it was irrelevant. Also, I have not LOOKED for any civics textbooks so as to test your theory. I tend to focus more on what the founders said then what "Houghton Mifflian" might have said.
That’s a reading fail. Here’s the quote of the Yale Law Journal article again:
“It is well settled that ‘native-born’ citizens, those born in the United States, qualify as natural born.” [Jill Pryor, ‘The Natural-Born Citizen Clause and Presidential Eligibility’, 97 Yale Law Journal 881-889 (1988).]
Oh, well, that proves it. Some Law dweeb said so in 1988, so therefore it must be true. On the other hand, this one says the exact opposite, and it is of an older Pedigree.
The result of the principal case is to limit the category “natural born” to those who become citizens under the doctrine of jus soli; this makes it co-extensive with the term “native born.” Of importance in this problem is whether these children took the nationality of their parents at common law, for if they are citizens by virtue of their birth and without the aid of statute, then certainly they are “natural born” and not “naturalized” citizens. In most continental European countries the doctrine of jus sanguinis is applied. England follows the same rule, both by virtue of the common law and under a declaratory statute of 1350 guaranteeing such application. As a result, it is generally concluded, despite occasional dissent,” that jus sanguinis was the common law doctrine. (8 1 Willoughby, The Constitution §202 (1922); Flournoy and Hudson, Nationality Laws (1929); Harvard Research in International Law on Nationality, 23 AM. J. INT. L., Spec. Supp. 80 (1929).
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How can you read that and not see what Pryor means by “native-born”? She explains it right there.
Why should anyone give a crap about Jill Pryor? She was not a contemporary of the founders, and her conclusions are refuted by quotes and practices of the founding era. If you are so enthralled by the relatively recent pronouncements of modern contemporaries, then accept what Lawrence B. Solum said up above.
Long ago there were doubts, sure. In our time, no one said a president’s parents must be citizens, until late in 2008 when a certain faction wanted reasons why Barack Obama cannot be president.
Still trying to sell that rotten meat, eh? It's been refuted, yet you are still peddling it.
If you had a reference to refute that, why wouldn’t you have cited it already?
Maybe, (as YOU guys kept saying about Obama) it was a clever trap to make you put your foot in your mouth so I could spring the quotes on you at the worst possible moment, thereby destroying your credibility! :) Note relevant cites above.
While we are at it, i'll remind you that this issue has come up twice, prior to Obama, which makes it THREE times in American Presidential History. Here are the links to previous challenges to the eligibility of a Presidential candidate. The first is 1916, the second is 1884.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29744612/Breckinridge-Long-A-Natural-Born-Citizen-Within
and
And you have been refuted once again!
Thanks for the kind words and the heads up.
And your point is what? In 1787, the terms "native born" and "natural born" are used interchangeably. The portion of the population at that time which was not both at the same time, was so small as to be unworthy of mention.
/Black’s Law Dictionary/ was first published in 1891, and has been regularly updated. It is most-cited legal dictionary in American law, and frequently cited by the U.S. Supreme Court, as West Publishing wants everyone to know.
And to hear you talk, there is not a comma out of place. It is like the Koran, the infallible book of the true believers. On the other hand, it could just contain a mistake about an issue which has seemingly even confused the Supreme court in Minor v Happersett. :)
"it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, (NOTE HOW THE SUPREME COURT USES THE TERMS INTERCHANGEABLY?) as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first."
Veteran’s Day, November 11, 2011
A Foot Soldier’s Call to Save America
That’s the day when the drums and fifes of columnist/patriot, JB Williams, retired U.S. Army Major General and senior military analyst Paul E. Vallely, Gathering of Eagles and Eagles Up! organizer U.S. Army (Ret.) Harry G. Riley and Company
will drown out the phony bleatings and mindless chants of the Occupy Wall Street malcontents, leading the way to real Hope & Change for America.
to demand the immediate restoration of the U.S. Constitution, the removal and prosecution of all of the individuals named herein, by voluntary resignation or articles of impeachment, and the end to Sharia Law on American soil.
My point is that your own reference refutes you. You had thought that there is a class of citizens who are citizens from birth rather than naturalized, yet not eligible for the presidency. Nope. Read your reference.Glad you like it. From /Bouvier’s law dictionary and concise encyclopedia, Volume 1/: “Citizens are either native-born or naturalized. Native citizens may fill any office; naturalized citizens may be elected or appointed to any office under the constitution of the United States, except offices of president and vice-president.”And your point is what? In 1787, the terms "native born" and "natural born" are used interchangeably.
Well, you have got my curiosity up. Do you have a linky thingy???
Not at all, as I said previously, if anything it refutes itself. It's definition of Native born Citizen is clear that the parents must also be citizens.
You had thought that there is a class of citizens who are citizens from birth rather than naturalized, yet not eligible for the presidency. Nope. Read your reference.
That there is confusion on the issue was already admitted by the Supreme Court in Minor v Happersett. That subsequent legal scholars may have remained confused is proof of what exactly?
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