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The Debt Crisis: Why There Is a Stalemate
The Conservative Underground, Vol. 4, Issue 16 ^ | August 2, 2011 | Jean F. Drew

Posted on 08/05/2011 11:39:58 AM PDT by betty boop

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As the article states, the writer strongly doubted (as of July 27th) the debt ceiling increase measure would pass. Must have been wishful thinking! Also the downgrading of U.S. sovereign debt has not yet occurred — although Moody’s has issued a “negative outlook” warning….

The legislation the President signed is a travesty. The Republicans in Congress demanded that for every dollar of increase in the debt limit, a corresponding dollar’s worth of federal spending cuts must take place. Tax increases were entirely off the table. What we got was immediate increases in debt, with spending cuts over the next ten years, most of them in the out years. And who knows if future Congresses will be bound by the promises of spending “cuts” that this Congress has made? Meanwhile the total federal debt increases to over $17 trillion, and likely to be much more than that because of the slowdown in the economy. So much for “debt reduction”; and the Bush tax cuts (which Obama is determined to repeal) will be revisited very soon, by the “special congressional commission” — 12 politically hand-picked people — charged with negotiating the next round of “cuts.” Behind closed doors. So much for transparency.

This struggle was nothing but political circus. At the end, the Tea Party didn’t “win.” The American people did not win. But the Democrat Party has managed to craftily “shape the battlefield” for the next conflict in their decided favor, when that special commission meets.

Speaker Boehner — God bless him — at some point seems to have decided that his role was to achieve a bi-partisan political compromise. That he did. But that compromise does not touch the problem of out-of-control federal spending. Which I thought was the object of the game.

When the two sides of the political debate are so ideologically and morally divided, how can there be any kind of real compromise? The Progressives don’t want “compromise,” they want victory — by any means fair or foul, by hook or by crook. Victory, for them, is staying in power.

They hope to do this by exploiting the great divide in the American populace, so well described by John C. Calhoun in his Disquisition. Even now the American people are being divided by the language of class warfare and the demonization of political enemies. That seems to be all the social progressives really have to offer. Against all experience and history, they evidently believe that somehow their rhetoric can actually instantiate the “reality” they prefer, to which we, the American people, are being forcibly recruited and for which we are being forcibly fleeced.

“Divided government” doesn’t work anymore, if it ever did. The next presidential election will be the last best hope of the people who want to stop the further squeeze on the American middle class — which is, of course, the taxpayer class that funds everything the federal government does.

Just some thoughts, FWIW….

1 posted on 08/05/2011 11:40:03 AM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop

Nobody in DC wants to correlate the rising debt ceiling with declining jobs.

The rising debt ceiling has two consequences....

more regulation ...

to occupy employees in expanding federal bureaucracies...which expand because “they have more money” and another layer of bureaucrats need their 20 year promotions... Each round of regulatory expansion is the effective equivalent of another targeted tax increase on the object of the regulation.

more taxes...

The rising debt ceiling has demands and expectations of creditors for new elements of “revenue raising” by the Feds...taxes or fees.

In this strangling environment job creation is simply NOT possible.

In fact the only logical conclusion..can be ..is that the Federal apparatus -initially an asset to the United States..by virtue of its abilities to raise an effective Navy in the late 1700’s, and early 1800’s to facilitate overseas trade on behalf of the States, has become nothing other than the States greatest liability at this point in time. In the absence of profound regulatory and taxation reform-which is not capable of coming from the same minds that created the problem..we may well be at the end of the line.

For DC to face this fact...means the end of the K St-Congressional Party cycle in DC-the one that keeps repeating “2.4Trillion” as their mantra.

IMHO...the only solution is a 50 state secession from DC at this point...with a completely new “Constitutional Re-Federalization”..


2 posted on 08/05/2011 11:41:33 AM PDT by mo
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To: Alamo-Girl; Mind-numbed Robot; Matchett-PI; stfassisi; xzins; Quix; metmom; Running On Empty; ...

FYI — if you feel like engaging in the “post mortems” re: this disgusting travesty of Congressional action....


3 posted on 08/05/2011 11:43:14 AM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through, the eye. — William Blake)
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To: mo
The rising debt ceiling has two consequences....

Good set of two, but there is a third. Incurring the debt is done by siphoning off capital from the free market that would otherwise be used to create jobs.

4 posted on 08/05/2011 11:47:44 AM PDT by mlocher (Is it time to cash in before I am taxed out?)
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To: betty boop

It’s just simple math. We need a Senate majority and a new president...we don’t have enough of the right people. That’s all there is too it.


5 posted on 08/05/2011 11:49:09 AM PDT by americanophile ("this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives" - Ataturk)
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To: betty boop

The entire “crisis” was created by and orchestrated by BH Obama and H Reid for their own purposes——to thrust the killing blow on the American economy! Now Obama squeals about jobs jobs jobs. Remember that jobs are the furthest things from his Marxist mind. Every word that issues from his mouth is to get re-elected. Anne Coulter reveals his method in “Demonic”.l Get it. Read it. Believe it!


6 posted on 08/05/2011 11:54:20 AM PDT by Paperdoll (NO MORE BUSHS!)
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To: mo

One of the major problems is that Congress and the President don’t realize how pissed off the people are getting and I mean all the people. I have never seen this amount of anger in our country. The sad thing is, it seems as though our President could care less. He may not last until the election.


7 posted on 08/05/2011 11:54:37 AM PDT by RC2
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To: mlocher

good point...but the fact interest rates are so low..DESPITE such massive Federal borrowing, means NO business is borrowing money...because in this tax and regulatory climate...credit is useless. It CANNOT grow..and so no point in borrowing AT all. Which compounds the Federal deficit which is used to growing in parallel with job and business growth.

this is a terrible, terrible trap...out of which the only route is effective dissolution of the Federal Gov’mt as we know it, and Constitutional Re-Federalization. If properly and timely done-America would own the next 100 years.


8 posted on 08/05/2011 11:55:02 AM PDT by mo
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl

We used to owe 14.2 trillion dollars. We were to “cut” some 2 trillion dollars. In less than 2 years we will owe 17.2 trillion dollars plus change. That is called “cutting spending”.

Since “cutting” is the same as “taking away”, it would read to the 3rd grade student: “14 take away 2 = 17”

And therein lies the problem.


9 posted on 08/05/2011 12:00:20 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: betty boop

The Washington aristocracy flourishes while the rest of the country suffers. And the MSM ignores this critical fact.

It’s time to rename MSM the “Minitrues” (as in George Orwell’s Ministry of Truth in 1984), Guardians of the Washington Aristocracy.


10 posted on 08/05/2011 12:02:44 PM PDT by sforkjoe57 (How much longer must Americans be slaves to the stupidity of John Maynard Keynes?)
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To: betty boop

Here is one of the fast ones Obama pulled while our eyes were on the “Crisis”, this from the Townhall Spotlight:

It’s Now Official!

Over The Counter (OTC) Bullion trading is now Illegal for all U.S. Residents.

The commodity futures trading Commission (CFTC) Now has a foot hold on the physical bullion market. A feat this Government Agency has tried to achieve since its 1974 inception.

Coincidentally, 1974 is when Americans were given back the right to own Bullion

(1933- Dec 1974 ban on Bullion) by executive order (11825), by then President Gerald Ford.

The CFTC’s June 14th, meeting on The Dodds Frank Act, set forth the final rules on all

Over The Counter markets, including retail commodity transactions of physical Bullion.

This is first step toward their ultimate goal.

Discover Their Ultimate Plot

Their reasons why and what you could do to protect your wealth.


11 posted on 08/05/2011 12:07:05 PM PDT by Paperdoll (NO MORE BUSHS!)
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To: mo
NO business is borrowing money...because in this tax and regulatory climate...credit is useless.

I love having a discussion with an intelligent and knowledable person! I agree entirely with you. I will also add that banks are not lending much to either consumers or businesses, partly because of Dodd-Frank, which underscores your point. My point is that even if we got rid of the fear of increased taxes and many of the recently imposed regulations, we would still have a credit problem because of government spending beyond its means, unnecessarily tapping into the pool of available capital.

12 posted on 08/05/2011 12:09:27 PM PDT by mlocher (Is it time to cash in before I am taxed out?)
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To: xzins

Nice explanation of Congressional Mathematics!


13 posted on 08/05/2011 12:22:53 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America ... where are you now?" signed, a little "r" republican!)
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To: ImpBill; betty boop; Alamo-Girl

Thanks for your kind words.

That math could form the basis of a profound philosophical treatise. One which I never plan to write. :>)

But Sister Betty might.

LOL.


14 posted on 08/05/2011 12:36:20 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: RC2

Anyone else wondering if the Poseur will be asking for another debt ceiling increase before the next election? He spends money faster than Mary Todd Lincoln and his ‘takers’ coalition is hungry.


15 posted on 08/05/2011 12:52:08 PM PDT by dogcaller
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To: betty boop

Excellent presentation!

I hate sounding like a broken record but the record is what it is. The root of the present situation is the result of the determined and seemingly indomitable march of Socialism/Marxism?Communism for the last 100 years. Rather than recap that journey I will jump to the end.

I know you have said some of this but rather than use space quoting you I will just charge ahead. Marxism, to use the gentler term for Communism, is about destruction. It sees the world as already divided between the haves and the have-nots, and where none exists it creates the divisions. Rather than seeing this as the natural order of things it sees it as unfair. Therefore, the existing order must be destroyed.

There are many strategies, tactics and methods used to accomplish this, all of them devious and unfair. They are liars and they honor the lie. To them it is a trait to be admired.

Eventually, like a house built upon sand, a philosophy of destruction destroys itself. That is what happened to the USSR. Yet, the USSR did not disappear, it just lied and reorganized itself. The Communists leaders finally realized that Communism may be a good system for the rulers but it is a lousy economic system. So they went underground and tried to convert to a semi-free enterprise economy. That is like being a little bit pregnant and it won’t work.

China is also trying a hybrid system and so far it is working in that it is using its cheap, some say slave, labor to compete in a global market. Sooner or later they, too, will see that you can’t be a little bit pregnant and go one way or the other.

The goal at the moment, of Obama and Soros, is to collapse the USA economically, socially, and militarily in order to establish a One World Government, headquartered in the USA. That is what is playing out in front of us.


16 posted on 08/05/2011 1:05:05 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (I retain the right to be inconsistent, contradictory and even flat-out wrong!)
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To: mo; Alamo-Girl; mlocher; americanophile; Paperdoll; RC2; xzins; sforkjoe57; ImpBill
In fact the only logical conclusion can be is that the Federal apparatus —initially an asset to the United States by virtue of its abilities to raise an effective Navy in the late 1700’s, and early 1800’s to facilitate overseas trade on behalf of the States, has become nothing other than the States greatest liability at this point in time. In the absence of profound regulatory and taxation reform — which is not capable of coming from the same minds that created the problem — we may well be at the end of the line.

Well said, mo. I entirely agree.

Among other things, the federal Leviathan is hell-bent-for-election to extinguish the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution (not to mention the Ninth). Anytime a State passes legislation it does not like — e.g., regarding illegal immigration or firearms policy — you can count on the insufferably block-headed Attorney General Eric Holder to bring a federal lawsuit against that State.

You wrote:

IMHO...the only solution is a 50 state secession from DC at this point...with a completely new “Constitutional Re-Federalization”..

Jeepers, it may have to come to that. Especially if the presumably "independent" courts consistently find for the federal government in such disputes. But we aren't quite "there" yet. Or so it seems to me.

Personally, I am so glad the States are "pushing back" against overweening federal power, as 26 States did WRT Obamacare. But then again, that same federal power has already made the States "dependent" on its ill-gotten largesse in so many ways, that there is probably a limit to how much "pushing back" the States are willing to do. We'll see about that....

I as a citizen have no standing to sue the federal government for its irresponsible policies. But the States do have such standing. At least for now.... I hope they will "stand up" while they still can....

Thank you ever so much for writing, mo!

p.s.: You might enjoy Calhoun's Disquisition — he was the quintessential "States' Rights" guy....

17 posted on 08/05/2011 1:28:41 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through, the eye. — William Blake)
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To: mo
Each round of regulatory expansion is the effective equivalent of another targeted tax increase on the object of the regulation.

So, in effect, your two points of Regulation and more Taxes is essentially one point - more taxes.

In the absence of profound regulatory and taxation reform-which is not capable of coming from the same minds that created the problem..we may well be at the end of the line. ...

IMHO...the only solution is a 50 state secession from DC at this point...with a completely new “Constitutional Re-Federalization”..

I don't think a 50 state secession is possible. Too many states like NY, CA, and Mass. So that leaves us with only some states willing and we are back to the 1850s all over again.

The best solution is to keep the Tea Party movement energized and retake the Senate, increase our majority in the House and elect a dynamic and conservative President. Even then, and it is easy to forget this in light of all the propaganda, we will need a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. We hear so often that when the Republicans had all three branches we still didn't do so-and-so. That was because the Democrats used every procedural and rules gimmick in the book to stymie the Republicans because we had only a small majority.

It still amazes me that we never seem to return the favor, although I think the Tea Party Republicans in the House did actually do their part. For that they were called terrorists. The Democrats are called clever and wise when they use even more severe tactics.

18 posted on 08/05/2011 1:29:22 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (I retain the right to be inconsistent, contradictory and even flat-out wrong!)
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To: mlocher; mo

There is another, perhaps more important, reason banks aren’t lending. They got pressured into the mortgage crisis by politicians and activists. When all went sour they were blamed and beat over the head by the same people who pressured them to do it. Now, with interest from the Fed at essentially zero, they simply buy Treasury notes at a profit and avoid any risk in the market place.

This has a lot in common with what the Democrats do when they increase the size of governments.More employees equal more union dues paid by those employees. The union leaders repay the Democrats with political contributions and “volunteers” for their elections. It is money laundering pure and simple.

The same is true with the banks getting free money to buy US securities to keep the Democrats afloat.


19 posted on 08/05/2011 1:40:43 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (I retain the right to be inconsistent, contradictory and even flat-out wrong!)
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To: betty boop

One thing I forgot in responding to you was discussing the rating institutions like Moody’s, etc. The Democrats were using the threat of a lowered rating for the country unless we increased their borrowing power. The same entities who were threatening to lower the rating are those who gave AAA to those worthless Mortgage Secured Derivatives. Therefore, how valuable was their judgement to start with. Very little it seems to me.

However, when you consider Fannie and Freddie, the Democrat involvement in their creation and perpetuation, their part in the financial crisis, the involvement of the Wall St. folks, like Goldman-Sachs and others, the in-the-middle-of-the-night withdrawal of money market funds which triggered TARP and the U.S. bailout of the international financial market, mostly to foreign banks and insurers, and then the expansion of the “crisis” by the Democrats who wanted more billions for “stimulus”, and the dots connect nicely to my original scenario. This is a Marxist generated global collapse.


20 posted on 08/05/2011 1:53:56 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (I retain the right to be inconsistent, contradictory and even flat-out wrong!)
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