Can Islam Be Reformed?

Townhall.com ^ | August 2, 2011 | Dennis Prager

[geologist]

Given time that can happen. Look at Christianity we have moved in directions away from our fundamental beliefs, over the years.

[DarthVader]

“Can Islam be reformed?”

Yes with the use of thermonuclear weapons.

[Elendur]

This is precisely the course Islam must follow if it is to be reformed. It is arguable that such a reformation is happening today, but like the Christian reformation the process is slow and not without violence.
///
respectfully, i agree with Cronos about the Protestant Reformation. but i admit, i’m not an expert on that.

but i do know about Islam. and it is not happening today.
in fact, you are seeing the exact OPPOSITE. Turkey, once praise as THE example of the reformed secular muslim state,
is return rapidly to full Islam. The Arab Spring, is another good example. The crowds in Egypt this week, are calling for a full Islamic sharia government.

and again, Islam CANNOT be reformed, and CANNOT be made secular. because the Quran itself cannot be changed, since it is the literal word of Allah. and IT says that sharia must be supreme. you cannot remove sharia law from Islam.

[zeugma]

no, it can’t. see my FR homepage

[zeugma]

BFL

[Elendur]

that is still my FAVORITE list of links.

http://www.freerepublic.com/~elendur/links?U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freerepublic.com%2Ffocus%2Fnews%2F2757439%2Fposts%3Fpage%3D70

see link #5.

[Elendur]

The question will become, can we reform within Islam?
///
THAT, is a very very interesting question!

remember the quote by the Pope of the Emperor (Maxim?), that what is good in Islam, came from Christianity, the rest is evil ? (sorry i paraphrase badly, but in essence.)

it’s true. when Islam conquered the then-CHRISTIAN middle east, a lot of “converted” Christians, did add to Islam.
a lot of the later hadiths, came from Christianity, and actually did reform it slightly.

(but, the Quran is still an immovable, unalterable object.)

[GOPsterinMA]

Hells NO!!!

[Steve Van Doorn]

"it is LITERALLY the words of Allah himself. to rewrite a single word, is blasphemy!!!"

you are absolutely correct. But there is something that is very important even I over looked on this.

Watch this video and notice something very important Islam has changed the meaning of words of Mohammad and only about 1% of Islam follows the literal interpretations of what Mohammad originally said which this old man in the video is correct (which i did do a ruff calculation on this a while ago).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc

If you want more details on the literal interpretations of the Quran that did say the earth is flat, the sky is solid and the earth is the center of the universe I can give more info. But most of Islam do not follow what Mohammad originally said anymore.

Also notice the old mans last statement it is very important:
"“No verse in the Quran indicates that the Earth is round or that it rotates. Anything that has no indication in the Quran is false.“ Yet most of Islam doesn't recognize the earth is flat.

[B4Ranch]

I consider the Quran to be kiddy porn, not something respectable people should read.

[Steve Van Doorn]

here are some quran viruses that are read out loud some of the same points I could link that proves the Quran states the Earth is Flat and many other points that is important:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRLnSeLP3U

Correction in last post:
ruff ---> rough

[Levante]

“Islam is a deadly cancer, best treated early with massive amounts of radiation.”

Blow ‘em up!

[slowhandluke]

This is precisely the course Islam must follow if ...

This is precisely the course Islam cannot follow. Christianity has the 'Render unto Caesar...' text on which to hang a split between religion and state. Islam has no such text, but rather strong injunctions that there can be no such split.

[Elendur]

most repectfully, since i have always admired your posts,
Islam is not kiddie porn. it should not be underestimated.

it is the religion of SATAN HIMSELF!

(but yes, Muhammad was a pedophile. “thighing a girl of 6 and having sex with her at age 9.)

...and your excellent list of links, i have praised many times, comes partially FROM people like us, READING the Quran, ahadith, and Sira, in order to learn about it, to fight better against it.
(and, also is partly why, i myself went to the OTHER side,
of the “taquiyya wall”.)

your own list of links i praised so much,
has useful fighting information it them,
FROM the Quran.

Sun-Tzu is STILL taught in our USA military academies.
and one MAJOR reason, why our government cannot deal with Islam properly, and is LOSING
(remember, the M.B. IN THE USA is already in stage 3!)
is because they DON’T understand Islam.

they still think bin laden “misunderstands” his own religion. only by reading and learning about it,
can you realize, that the problem is ISLAM ITSELF.

also, knowledge of the Quran, CAN be useful, in converting Muslims to Christianity.
(the Coptic Priest in Egypt, with the 25 MILLION dollar price tag on his head from Al-Queda itself, is the best example. his shows have been AMAZING, using the words of the Quran itself, to make Islam look ridiculous, and opening the minds of millions to Jesus.)

[BlueLancer]

200 years from now, I want their children's children's children
to cower and cringe in fear whenever they hear the sounds of jet engines overhead
because their legends tell of fire from the sky.

I want them to hide in dark caves and holes in the earth,
shivering with terror whenever they hear the roar of diesel engines
because the tales of their ancestors talk about metal monsters
crawling over the earth, spitting death and destruction.

I want their mothers to be able to admonish them with
"If you don't behave, the Pale Destroyers will come for you",
and that will be enough to reduce them to quivering obedience.

I want the annihilation to be so complete that their mythology
will tell them of the day of judgment when the stern gods from across the sea
.. the powerful 'Mericans .. destroyed their forefathers' wickedness.

(Original created by BlueLancer ... 13 September 2001)

[Elendur]

Yet most of Islam doesn't recognize the earth is flat. /// excellent observations! ...one of my favorites, is that there is a MATH ERROR in the Quran! it adds of the fractions for inheriting, incorrectly. things like this, can be very useful, in discussions. many Christian sites, like answering-Islam, have great lists of things like this. but my absolute favorite hero, is Dr Ali Sina. (you can look him up on wikipedia) he has had actual debates, with leading authorities in Islam, and won so strongly, that for years now, they refuse to debate him more. Ex-Muslims reveal Islam and Islamic threat | FaithFreedom.org Posted July 28, 2011 by Ali Sina ... FaithFreedom International is a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. It is created to ... www.faithfreedom.org Faith Freedom International - Wikipedia, Ali Sina has issued a standing challenge that he will remove the FFI website if proven wrong on a number of issues. Faith Freedom International is listed ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Freedom_​International

[Elendur]

Amen!
...Islam has, in it’s own words, literally declared war on us.
they will never stop, they are like Borg.

it is a war of survival. until the West understands that, like Charles Martel did, like Ivan Sirko in his famous letter, etc., we will never win.

[Elendur]

it is very sad, most of our leaders and generals, do not understand what Churchill, Jefferson, and even ANN COULTER understand.

“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren’t punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That’s war. And this is war.”
Ann Coulter

...we are not in a war on “Terror”. it is Islam itself that has declared war. ANY Imam or devout Muslim can tell you that. (but they won’t, unless they think you are a muslim...)

[Brad from Tennessee]

When Christianity was approximately the same age as Islam is today church authorities were burning Joan of Arc alive.

[The_Reader_David]

Prager is overly optimistic. I fear that what is necessary for a reformed Islam may be seen in three precedents, two outside the Muslim world — the Seige of Muenster and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski — and one within the Muslim world — the devastation of Ismaili Islam by the Mongols.

Since the Mongol destruction of their power, the Ismailis have been remarkably pacific, despite formally including jihad as a pillar of Islam, as they regard only the Aga Khan as having the authority to call for jihad in the sense of warfare, and the Aga Khans down the years since then have shown no inclination to do anything of the sort (lately they tend to be very cosmopolitan, Oxbridge educated, and a bit decadent).

The Anabaptists only turned pacifist after the horrible Siege of Muenster, before which they meant to establish their vision of the Kingdom of God by force of arms. Likewise, the last fanatical cult to use its members as guidance systems for bombs (actually a new feature for Islam, post-Saayed-Qutb) was the Shintoist Imperial Cult from which, through the alchemy of a severe defeat involving atomic bombing, pacifist Japan arose.

I fear that a universal reformation of Islam into a religion compatible with civilized norms (be they Christian, Jewish, Taoist, Buddhist, or even post-Christian secularist) would require a traumatic defeat of similar sort dealt to the ummah as a whole. Probably there really should be contingency plans for nuking Mecca and Medina drawn up against the possibility that someone manages to unite the ummah in a full-on old-style jihad.