Posted on 07/03/2011 7:26:19 PM PDT by sourcery
No neither is natural born
The 1920 Census is a mistaken entry. The census taker even has his wife listed as an alien and she was born in Virginia !!! Census data isn't always that accurate.
Agnew's father was naturalized prior to September 12,1918. This can be seen from his WW I draft card registration dated Sept 12,1918. One of the fields checked off is that he was a naturalized US citizen. Agnew was born in November, so his father was a US citizen at the time of his birth.
A holy-crap-that’s-a-lot-to-read-before-going-to-bed ping
The Constitution doesn’t mention anything about a president’s parents-—you can’t even find the word “parents” in this part of the document. So Bobby Jindal is qualified to be president, just like Barack Obama is if he was really born in Hawaii, because HE(Jindal) was born on U.S. soil. This makes sense. Why shouldn’t Jindal be qualified? He was born here, for crying out loud.
Bump for later read...
Will the Gentleman from South Carolina, Joe Wilson, please step forward!
“Permit me to hint whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of foreigners into the administration of our national government; and to declare expressly that the command in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on any but a natural born citizen.”
From this information alone, we may infer that:
To the members of the he Constitutional Convention, the words "born a citizen" and "natural born citizen" meant different things.
I'm pretty sure I've explained this to you before, but let me say again that you're on shaky historical ground here. When John Jay wrote this letter, several State plans were being considered, and the Hamilton plan had actually been dismissed by a vote a few weeks earlier. There's simply no reason to believe John Jay was writing this in response to Hamilton's plan.
“The English common law did not distinguish between a “natural born subject” and a naturalized subject. Under English common law, once a person became naturalized, he or she was deemed to be a “natural born subject.” Hence, under English common law a naturalized citizen was considered a “natural born subject.””
Wrong. Just one of many false statements that riddle this piece.
I think its too complicated for you to understand. Enjoy your fourth of July holiday and have some watermelon. Deeper thinkers than you will resolve this dilema.
As an admirer of Gov. Jindal it would be great if we could apply his leadership "at the next level". But there are many qualified persons across this nation. But there is only one Constitution.
Outstanding piece of work.
One of the best consolidated versions of the subject available.
“In Alexander Hamilton’s first draft of the U.S. Constitution, a person had to be “born a citizen” of the United States in order to be eligible to serve as president.”
In Alexander Hamilton’s JUNE draft, perhaps. However:
“On June 18 Alexander Hamilton presented his own ideal plan of government. Erudite and polished, the speech, nevertheless, failed to win a following. It went too far. Calling the British government “the best in the world,” Hamilton proposed a model strikingly similar an executive to serve during good behavior or life with veto power over all laws; a senate with members serving during good behavior; the legislature to have power to pass “all laws whatsoever.” Hamilton later wrote to Washington that the people were now willing to accept “something not very remote from that which they have lately quitted.” What the people had “lately quitted,” of course, was monarchy. Some members of the convention fully expected the country to turn in this direction. Hugh Williamson of North Carolina, a wealthy physician, declared that it was “pretty certain . . . that we should at some time or other have a king...
...Most delegates were well aware that there were too many Royall Tylers in the country, with too many memories of British rule and too many ties to a recent bloody war, to accept a king. As the debate moved into the specifics of the new government, Alexander Hamilton and others of his persuasion would have to accept something less.”
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_history.html
Please note that Hamilton’s “draft” was never agreed to in any way by the delegates.
“On Tuesday, July 24, 1787, the Constitutional Convention appointed members to the Committee of Detail. The Committee was tasked with taking all of the points debated by the Convention up to that point and constructing a document that could be used as a basis for further debate. The members started meeting on the following Thursday while the rest of the delegates enjoyed some time off from the debates. For ten days, the five members of the committee met together and in consultation with their fellow delegates. On August 6, 1787, John Rutledge, delegate from South Carolina, presented the draft to the Convention.”
And “On Monday August 6, 1787, the convention accepted the first draft of the Constitution. Here was the article-by-article model from which the final document would result some 5 weeks later.”
In the August 6 version, the word born does not appear anywhere. In fact, the President could have been a naturalized citizen in the 6 August draft. NBC was added before the final version produced in Sept 1787.
http://www.civil-liberties.com/pages/draft.html
http://www.usconstitution.net/draft_aug6.html
In fact, the word “born” isn’t found anywhere in the text of the first draft of the Constitution.
“One of the best consolidated versions of the subject available.”
Actually, it is utter bunk. It shows a total disregard for facts, and accepts fanciful dreams in their place. It is embarrassing that such drivel shows up on FreeRepublic!
Guess an adopted child would have to have ancestors traced. Of if they were from another country, they would not be naturally born. Hey how about an American born here but was adopted by foreigners. Much ado about nothing.
He must have been writing in response to something. Why write such a letter at all, unless whatever wording he thought was current was not to his liking?
Your object cannot reasonably have any merit.
You only discredit yourself when you lie, especially when the incontrovertible proof of your lie is right there in the text for all to see.
You are the one lying. Hamilton’s June proposal was NOT a draft of the Constitution! The first draft did NOT even have “born” in it!
Here is the first draft of the Constitution on the President:
“Sect. 1. The Executive power of the United States shall be vested in a single person. His stile shall be, “The President of the United States of America;” and his title shall be, “His Excellency.” He shall be elected by ballot by the Legislature. He shall hold his office during the term of seven years; but shall not be elected a second time.
Sect. 2. He shall, from time to time, give information to the Legislature of the State of the Union: he may recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary, and expedient: he may convene them on extraordinary occasions. In case of disagreement between the two Houses, with regard to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he think proper: he shall take care that the laws of the United States be duly and faithfully executed: he shall commission all the officers of the United States; and shall appoint officers in all cases not otherwise provided for by this constitution. He shall receive Ambassadors, and may correspond with the Supreme Executives of the several States. He shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons; but his pardon shall not be pleadable in bar of an impeachment. He shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States. He shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during his continuance in office. Before he shall enter on the duties of his department, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation,
I——— solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States of America.
He shall be removed from his office on impeachment by the House of Representatives, and conviction in the Supreme Court, of treason, bribery, or corruption. In case of his removal as aforesaid, death, resignation, or disability to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the President of the Senate shall exercise those powers and duties until another President of the United States be chosen, or until the disability of the President be removed.”
Hmmm....
Strong reaction with no specific rebuttal.
With Minor properly critiqued and the short lived naturalization Act of 1790 we have a complete and specific understanding of what was meant by the Constitution’s Article II, Section 1 clause. This expands and demonstrates that understanding as applied over time. That understanding has never been changed or overturned in over 200 years.
The worst part of this is not that those brought the current administration to power go away with it. It is that those charged with defending the Constitution from enemies - both foreign AND domestic allowed it to happen. Yes, everyone is “in on it”. Two constitutionally ineligible candidates in 2008. The perfect storm.
Now we have a legal, constitutional and historical mess of massive proportions. And to avoid it our government has created an Orwellian world where it believe it can ignore facts, scrub and change them on the web and create truth where there is none (think SR 511 on that last one!).
Happy 4th to you and all. Hopefully, we can celebrate another one next year!
“With Minor properly critiqued and the short lived naturalization Act of 1790 we have a complete and specific understanding of what was meant by the Constitution’s Article II, Section 1 clause.”
You IGNORE what Minor wrote to pretend it says something it expressly does NOT say. Here is the link, in case anyone wants to read Minor for themselves:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0088_0162_ZO.html
“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.”
To repeat:
“As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.”
Natural born citizen HAD an established meaning prior to the Constitution, reflected in the citizenship laws of the new states. It was used as a direct replacement for natural born subject in their laws...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.