Posted on 06/23/2011 9:56:53 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
I finally realized:
What's the reason for the arched "neck" on these aircraft?
What are we talking here...a Chinese copy of a Russian FA-18 knockoff?
If Im not mistaken, the SU-27 (the basis for the J-15) flew around the same time as the Hornet. And it’s significantly larger so its hardly a knockoff.
ping
It’s hard to make technology judgments based on pictures. Also, GE via Obama, is helping China (transferring technology) design a new fighter engine. That may be as much of a “game changer” as putting the Rolls Royce engine into the P-51 Mustang. It was only a mediocre performer before that.
In addition, rules of engagement and tactics come into play. If they’re willing to pull the trigger and our side’s orders aren’t to (Obama sent a destroyer to the Spratlys) then they could be flying a Spad and they’ll win.
sub-laminar anti-stall lift a la` a flamingo?
I am thinking room for the air intakes.
The questions will be (as they are with all carrier aircraft) Max gross weight for takeoff, range and endurance, and bring back capability.
The goods for the J-15 will be thrust and probably endurance. The big questions will be loadout and precision strike capability.
The big others for the PLAN will be the number of aircraft on the roof, cycle times, ability to run cyclic operations, and variety of support aircraft.
Like I said a few days ago, if the ChiComs use the Shi Lang to train up a large number of pilots for their carrier(s) currently under construction, within the next decade the Chinese Navy will be a serious threat throughout the Pacific.
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While the J-15 is not on par with the F-22 or the JSF by any stretch, in the proper hands...meaning well trained, expreienced, with a lot of backup capability (ie AEW, EW, etc.)...the J-15 is on par with the F-18 basic airframe and capabilities.
Now, we have all of those extra capabilities and are well honed in all of them. The Chinese do not and would thus be sorely lacking against any US air presences. It would be a turkey shoot at present.
But before now, there was no prospect for any Red Chinese aircraft carrier presence or power projection in that regard.
However, given time and experience, the Chinese will close that gap, just as they are closing the material and tech gap. They intend to have two more full size carriers and the airwings to support them by 2020...making three altogether.
We will have 10 or 11...but the Chinese will all be concentrated in the WESTPAC.
That's why you see our allies building up their own capabilities in this regard...counting on the JSF to give their smaller carriers much greater reach. The Japanese, the Koreans and the Australians are all building sea control type multi-role carriers.
Everyone else in the region can handle them, no problem.
There is a rather brisk naval arms race going on in the WESTPAC right now, and most of it is in response to the PLAN.
Hi Jeff
You and I have argued the finer points of this over quite a few years now:)
I think about the only thing we agree on is TIME.
Sure, eventually the PLAN will be a threat, and a considerable one if the USA doesn't get on the shipbuilding program. And I'm not talking about $1bil LCS - Frigate wannabees. Real $250mil Frigates...$850mil subs...and keeping our Burke Class and all other shipbuilding programs going. We'll need replacements for the Trident boats soon too.
I would advise DOD to go with 8 tubes and more boats if it was up to me.
However, the Aussie F-18s and the Korean/Japanese F-15s are MORE than a match of this lumbering stupid bird the Chinese are putting up. And, all their Blue Water ships exceed the Chinese in every category including numbers. Especially the Japanese.
Yes, aircraft in TRUE Blue Water are a game changer...but the Chinese have yet to show they can get to Blue Water. They are a coastal fleet...and have merely increase their reach by a few hundred kilometers. And, I might add, just increased the distance from home that they will die.
Re: However, the Aussie F-18s and the Korean/Japanese F-15s are MORE than a match of this lumbering stupid bird the Chinese are putting up.
Talk is cheap...
I mean we from the West will never know what we are dealing with, J-15-wise, until we do a real to life duel it out over the skies of the South China Sea with them instead of just basing things from statistics that we gather from out of an air combat game consul.
What we in the West needs to do is to take advantage of the opportunity that the VietCom’s and the Filipees provides and see with our own eyes how good the Shark really is as compared to our super F-18’s and 15’s — in a MiG-15 verses F-86 fashion otherwise this is all but self comfort and self gratification.
In the realms of science, we need to proof a theory before it’s deemed facts.
So, are we up to the task?
Re: Nobody believes these aircraft to be a significant threat except maybe the Philippines and Viet Nam.
Well... There’s this constant argument going around the defense sector and that argument is this: Today, it’s a threat; tomorrow it isn’t; the day following it’s no contest to our birds which now are top of the air combat food chain; and on the forth day the story is that these new ChiCom toys posts a grave concern to every of birds we have with the exception of the F-22 and F-35 and back and forth and over and over again... I mean who knows anymore — for real???
I think we agree on a lot more than that.
I agree that we have to keep building...should never have slowed down or looked back after Gulf War I.
I’d love to see 800 F22s instead of the 187 or whatever it is we have stopped at. I’d love to see 12 carriers and 12 large amphibs...maybe 14 of each instead of scaling back to 10. I’d love to see a bunch of true Frigates too. Our allies have taken and improved the Oliver H. Perry’s we have given them and we have de-fanged our own. We need a new frigate. Perhaps an upgraded USCGC Bertholf class, suitably armed for naval duty, or the upgraded Lockheed version of the LCS that is more of a true frigate that the Israelis are considering.
Also would like to see us replace the Ticos with an upgraded Burke along the lines of the larger, more heavily armed S. Korean Sejong class.
Finally, the new avionics and the capabilities of the J-15 are not junk...but they are not in capable hands either. Our aviators would clean their slate handily in F-18s, F-15s and F-16s. But given time and experience, those aircraft in capable hands could give those aircraft a challenge.
And that’s the rub. Those three aircraft are all 20+ years old tech to us. We should already be moving well along. The J-15 is new and impressive to the Chinese (and indeed is better than what they have been able to produce in the past), but our F-22s and F-35s is what those J-15s should meet in numbers.
What we need is a congres and president who are working together in the best foreign policy interests of the US and who recognize that the best foreign aid we have is a strong and unchallengable military, and keep it that way...unassailable.
I didn’t know that Earl Scheib painted airplanes...
Now that’s funny.
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