Posted on 04/25/2011 4:28:38 AM PDT by Scanian
I’ve only seen polls of “adults” on the “soak the rich” topic. And, since half of “adults” aren’t even registered to vote, I really don’t know why anybody pays attention to that sort of poll.
Sounds like pure manipulation of public opinion through misleading polling.
You havent seen the video clips taken at Republican Town hall meetings? like the one in WI last week where Ryan got yelled at? They are very similar to the Obama-care ones except instead of being mad Obama is cutting their medicare they are mad that House Republicans voted (non-binding) to eliminate the medicare entitlement. Republicans never ran on that, they refused to talk specifics of any cuts before the election and said they were defending medicare from cuts.
That is how you lose the tax battle, make it look like a competition between voters entitlements and ‘tax cuts on the rich’ when you ran on protecting the entitlement. It changes everything.
I haven’t seen it, no.
But how do we know that some of the whiners weren’t ‘rat plants sent to undermine the meeting?
Look at how effective they have been at tea parties bring in fascistic signs to “fool” reporters. The ‘rats do it and so do LaRouche’s people.
Wisconsin has turned into a snake pit due to the government unions but most people who actually LISTEN to what Ryan proposes respect his ideas even if they don’t believe his entire plan is correct.
We cannot allow a minority of crybabies/plants to determine fiscal policy which, if handled wrong, will drive the country to a quick demise.
We know those people in the Republican Town hall meetings mad about medicare reform (cuts/elimination see as paying for tax cuts) are just as real as they were when they booed Democrats for proposing medicare cuts to pay for Obama-care. Republicans knew they were real, that is why 2009 and 2010 they took the position of being AGAINST medicare cuts to win the 2010 election.
Back in 2009 I and a few others were critical of Republicans for taking the position of being protector of medicare benefits, I predicted here that it would backfire. Many freepers here took the position that medicare was a contract. We would have been better off if incoming Republicans ran on the Ryan plan back last year's election even if in the short term they didnt do as well. That way their voters wouldnt be surprised.
If the town halls get to be a problem, the ‘rats know what to do about it-—simply PACK the meetings with supporters.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Keep ‘em orderly. If the people attending can’t act like ladies and gentlemen, then RAUS!
Keep out as many as crybabies as possible and if any of those entering act disruptively, toss ‘em. No law says thar town halls need to turn into town brawls.
BTW, I have been agitating for 20%-30% entitlement cuts across the board for months. NOBODY seems interested. But neither do they get nasty about it.
I need Medicare to survive at this point(cancer) but the future of the country comes first. I’ll take my chances.
I am not trying to be critical of the Ryan plan but politically it is a difficult sell. Those over 55 get the government to pay for their retirement health care, those under 55 don't get that but still get to pay the medicare taxes to pay for the others, without the entitlement for it. Then throw in tax cuts at the same time. You can see how many voters including many Republicans will respond: “Screw the rich, keep your promise to me instead. I paid in”. That was not the choice they were asked to make last year.
I am critical about how Republicans are handling this. If they had public opinion on their side and made Democrats cave on it under political pressure I would be happy. But the way things are going it looks like Republicans wont get anything cut.
I think it is quite likely that misgivings about perceived (real or imagined) entitlement changes/cuts could weaken or even punish poll responses about tax cuts for "the rich." It's also likely that union members/sympathizers who didn't think GOP govs. had the nerve to actually do something about pensions, benefits, etc. now see them as a real threat. Personally, I think federal and state reforms actually save the future benefits, but what do I know?
This view pretty much agrees with your statement: I know certain hosts on talk radio claimed that ‘tax cuts/increases on the rich’ is a subject that the majority of people will consistently agree with them on, leading listeners to be shocked like now when the issue is bundled with entitlement cuts, (or elimination to some degree). But I am not.
Unfortunately, the donkeys have had some success bundling tax cuts for small business with loopholes for crony capitalists like GE.
But at this point, I don't think neither side has a decisive advantage.
“I paid in”
Medicare depends on individual situations, obviously, but many, MANY recipients have gotten FAR more than they have put in, including interest, which makes them-—WELFARE CASES.
In the case of Social Security, with today’s longevity, the vast majority of recipients get out far more than they put in. Which makes them welfare cases also.
Somebody needs to tell these users the facts of life. The gravy train is over.
We can wean ourselves off it the easy way or simply have the curtain crash down all of a sudden.
And monetizing the debt will produce the same eventual result.
Get hip...or get creamed.
(1) Freepers are way, way more conservative than the electorate at large;
(2) Freepers are more knowledgeable about the debt crisis than the electorate at large; and
(3) A sizable number of Freepers still hold to the "I paid for it - Government promised me - I'm entitled to it all until I die" mindset....
I honestly despair of a real solution which won't be demagogued until abandoned.
We're just going to ride the Medicare train until the wheels come clean off with an almighty crash.
As I said...get creamed if you don’t want to get hip.
There is enough fiscal information being passed around everywhere. I do it daily, I’m sure thousands of FReepers do the same...and we are just a tiny corner of the blogosphere.
High gas prices are making people ask questions. And “The bleeping oil companies and speculators” is not a satisfactory answer. Neither is “soak the rich.”
The time I spent with some hospital staffers yesterday gave me a jolt of optimism. The awareness level was EXTREMELY high.
It may be Medicare "rationing" under the Obama/Berwick model, or it may be "case management" by the HMO's that will run under the Ryan plan, or it may just be a huge reduction in doctors and hospitals who will take Medicare, if the solution turns out to be whacking provider payments.
The golden age of unlimited Medicare (hip replacements and ICD's for nonagerians, ten weeks stays in the ICU for clearly terminal patients) paid for by the next generation of workers is over, repeat, over.
I'm not at all surprised that hospital employees understand this completely.
Death panels is still a huge stretch, it's like when Michael Moores Sicko claims insurance companies kill people. Cutting Medicare should NOT be equated with killing people. This is a dangerous short term political strategy.
#13 posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 2:19:12 PM by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: “’Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it’”)
That comment was not taken well. I was responding to comment :#12 . There was another post I referenced on that thread where Steele/ the RNC vowed to oppose any medicare cuts in a seniors rights pledge, around that same time.
Now Ryan and company are acting surprised that many voters are up in arms about losing their medicare entitlement, and other freepers seeing it as necessary are in denial that it is even happening, and others still think medicare and SS are contracts that cant be broken as many did back then 2009.
I posted this comment on it:
To: nmh; truthandlife
Holy crap! This ‘plan’ is a political document that guarantees seniors tax payer funded entitlements. If you ever needed a call to dump the dollar this is it. A long term disaster.
#5 posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:53:10 PM by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: “’Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it’”)
So when I get pings telling me that we are broke, or that the polls showing Republicans/Tea partiers are opposed to losing medicare are NOT real, I am NOT impressed.
I am not always right, but I am usually right.
” So, how much testicular fortitude is REALLY necessary? “
Very little, but our Repubs don’t even have THAT much.
” The ordinary voter understands far more than what the typical DC politician thinks. “
How true! Of course, the ordinary voter doesn’t live in a regal bubble in D.C., and doesn’t get 300,000 a year in salary, healthcare, cash perks, and a huge pension either ;-)
That hospital has been a hive of anti-Obamacare sentiment for over a year; I find that the attitude is carrying over to other issues now.
The place could easily start its own tea party. That’s how conservative it has become.
Somebody is doing some thinking. I email stuff to some of the nurses daily but there is a whole lot more to it than that. They see the writing on the wall.
Thanks. Been busy elsewhere. I need some time to absorb today’s round of bad news.
well the 45% are what dems think they can count on..if they can raise that to 60% they can kill the republic.
I get these comments claiming the polls showing many Republican voters are opposed to losing medicare entitlement is not real, and that the Town Hall meetings where older (white) voters are angry about the medicare proposal is just ACORN antics and not real, and I wonder what planet some of these folks are on. Is someone telling them to believe that??.
Recall this 2009 RNC (RINO-National-Committee, the Steele RNC. Now he is gone) political proposal to win a few votes short term, or more-so to get donations:
The Republican National Committee's “bill of rights” includes calls to “protect Medicare,” “prohibit efforts to ration health care based on age” and “ ensure seniors can keep their current coverage.” Taken together, the list does not represent an actual reform proposal — congressional GOP leaders have so far failed to introduce a plan of their own — but rather a series of things Republicans believe reform should not do.
GOP Pushes Health 'Bill of Rights'(Washington Post,Aug 24, 2009) .
The GOP got themselves in this mess, and RINO Steele as head of the RNC was like a termite destroying it from the inside.
Boner is apparently joing Obama on SOAK BIG OIL.
Nothing substantive has changed.
RE :”Boner is apparently joing Obama on SOAK BIG OIL.”
You see this someplace? Maybe he cut a deal with Obama on drilling.
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