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Moody's Worried US Tax Cuts Could Become Permanent(pay more taxes or get screwed?)
Money News ^ | 12/07/10

Posted on 12/07/2010 9:25:07 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster

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To: redgolum
But we have so much debt, that isn't really practical.

Really? Why??

If you cut taxes on income, both corporate and personal, both have more money to spend in the economy, thus driving up consumer demand, augmenting hew hiring and putting unemployed workers on the payroll. Since those workers are once again paying taxes, tax receipts actually go up, especially if the private sector views the cuts as permanent.

The current tax extention is a mistake only in that they put an expiration date on them. This alters the psyche of the consumer from one of greater purchases in the market to one of taking that temporary income and using it to pay off debt, or save it for a rainy day...neither of which kick-starts the economy. Nope...permanent tax cuts for both corporations and individuals are what's desperately needed.

21 posted on 12/08/2010 7:19:37 AM PST by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
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To: BenKenobi

What does a triple a ranking mean?

As in a AAA rating versus a double A as in AA.


22 posted on 12/08/2010 7:56:56 AM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: econjack
We don't have the money

Think about it. Think about it like a business, not a state. Credit is tapped out, debt is piling up, and the creditors are getting nervous.

The first step is to cut costs, and layoff people. Which the states have been doing. After that, the bank will demand you raise prices (increase income) to try to bridge the gap. If that fails, you go bankrupt.

The fedgov is in trouble. Deep trouble. The massive measures that are causing riots in Greece and the UK will be here soon, and that means cuts and higher taxes. Sooner or later, that is what will happen.

It is going to be very painful, and it will deepen the depression, but you need to discharge debt, not try to inflate another bubble.

23 posted on 12/08/2010 7:57:48 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

>>The money needs to come from somewhere. We need to cut spending and probably raise taxes.<<

Easy, reduce the budget. Shut down a few worthless agencies and you’ll have plenty of money to pay off the debt. May I suggest starting with the EPA and the NEA.


24 posted on 12/08/2010 7:59:59 AM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: B4Ranch

That is a start, and a good one, but the biggest spending is on entitlement and the military.

Those cuts will hurt.


25 posted on 12/08/2010 8:02:06 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: B4Ranch

>>>Easy, reduce the budget. Shut down a few worthless agencies and you’ll have plenty of money to pay off the debt. May I suggest starting with the EPA and the NEA.

It’s not that easy. When you consider the budget deficit for this year will be about $1.3T cutting the EPA and NEA doesn’t really move you very close to having plenty of money to pay off the debt. You pretty much have to go after everything that is not defense, social security, medicare or medicaid.

Discretionary spending in FY 2010 was $1.39 trillion, or 38% of total spending. More than half ($844 billion) was security spending, which includes the Department of Defense, overseas contingency programs and Homeland Security.

Non-security spending was $553 billion. So if you close down all the discretionary gov agencies (USDA, Energy, Commerce, Education, etc) immediately you find about $500B in savings. There is $135B in stimulus spending for FY11 that could be cut. We can find an additional $619B in savings from non-discretionary programs if we immediately cut these programs: Food Stamps, Unemployment Compensation, Child Nutrition and Tax Credits, Supplemental Security for the Disabled and Student Loans. That gets you close to balancing the budget.


26 posted on 12/08/2010 8:20:42 AM PST by NC28203
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To: B4Ranch

I guess my question is this. Is it a relative ranking or an absolute ranking?


27 posted on 12/08/2010 8:27:19 AM PST by BenKenobi (Obama's book of the month, Herman Melville's Killin' Whitey)
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To: BenKenobi
Gradations of creditworthiness are indicated by rating symbols, with each symbol representing a group in which the credit characteristics are broadly the same. There are nine symbols as shown below, from that used to designate least credit risk to that denoting greatest credit risk: Aaa Aa A Baa Ba B Caa Ca C Aaa Obligations rated Aaa are judged to be of the highest quality, with minimal credit risk.

Aa Obligations rated Aa are judged to be of high quality and are subject to very low credit risk.

A Obligations rated A are considered upper-medium grade and are subject to low credit risk.

Baa Obligations rated Baa are subject to moderate credit risk. They are considered medium grade and as such may possess certain speculative characteristics.

Ba Obligations rated Ba are judged to have speculative elements and are subject to substantial credit risk.

B Obligations rated B are considered speculative and are subject to high credit risk.

Caa Obligations rated Caa are judged to be of poor standing and are subject to very high credit risk.

Ca Obligations rated Ca are highly speculative and are likely in, or very near, default, with some prospect of recovery of principal and interest.

C Obligations rated C are the lowest rated class and are typically in default, with little prospect for recovery of principal or interest.


28 posted on 12/08/2010 8:36:53 AM PST by NC28203
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To: TigerLikesRooster
From August....

SEC Won't Sue Moody's

Hmmmmm......

29 posted on 12/08/2010 8:39:56 AM PST by mewzilla (Hey, Schumer, how's that Lockerbie bomber deal investigation coming along?)
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To: redgolum

How about just cutting spending back to say 2006 levels for a start. That would cut a hunk out of the budget.


30 posted on 12/08/2010 8:48:17 AM PST by sarge83
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To: NC28203

So why would the US government not be considered to have minimal credit risk compared with everything else out there?


31 posted on 12/08/2010 9:00:50 AM PST by BenKenobi (Obama's book of the month, Herman Melville's Killin' Whitey)
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To: econjack

Exactly.

Right now the debt servicing load to federal government revenue is 20 percent. This means that in order to prevent an irreverseable debt spiral, the government must collect 20 percent of the current taxes that it collects.

Tax revenue from it’s height has dropped by about a third. So even though tax revenue has dropped, debt servicing load is still only 20 percent.

Total Federal tax revenue is about 18 percent of the GDP of the US, so about 18 cents of every dollar goes to pay for the Feds.


32 posted on 12/08/2010 9:19:45 AM PST by BenKenobi (Obama's book of the month, Herman Melville's Killin' Whitey)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Bah. Low taxes and High spending has worked wonders so far.


33 posted on 12/08/2010 10:58:32 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: TigerLikesRooster

If Federal government spending had been held to a 2% annual increase for each of the past 10 years, we would not be facing such a monumental problem. Entitlement reform is still going to be required, too. Increasing taxes will not solve that problem without crushing growth and depressing corporate revenue, and thus leaving both Social Security and Medicare further in the red.


34 posted on 12/08/2010 11:06:30 AM PST by andy58-in-nh (America does not need to be organized: it needs to be liberated.)
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To: BenKenobi

A relative ranking, I believe.


35 posted on 12/08/2010 1:02:38 PM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: econjack

Lindsey’s report was published as the book ‘The Growth Experiment’ in 1991. Lindsey had been an economics professor at Harvard during the 80s and had had his students run the regression analyses that generated the data that the book is based on. I see that Amazon still has a new copy offered for less than $5.

Now it’s been a good many years since I read the book, but IIRC the 60% was recouped rather quickly. Businesses responded to the incentives of the Reagan program, which of course had more to it than just marginal tax rate cuts. Cutting the thicket of regulation was another major leg, as was supporting the Volcker Fed’s sound dollar policy. And there were investment tax credits.

Getting sacked by Dubya is probably a testament to Lindsey’s integrity. He simply wouldn’t let political calculus influence his cost estimate of the Iraq War. The numbers were what they were and he wasn’t going to alter them. I never saw Lindsey comment on getting sacked, he just kept his own counsel on the subject.


36 posted on 12/08/2010 7:58:08 PM PST by Pelham (Islam, the mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: FreedomPoster; econjack

Here’s a tax curve that is a bit more valuable than Laffer’s curve:

Lindsey’s ‘Excess Burden’ graph:

http://tinyurl.com/23b2dh3


37 posted on 12/08/2010 8:15:23 PM PST by Pelham (Islam, the mortal enemy of the free world)
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To: Pelham

Great article that I had not seen before...thanks for posting!


38 posted on 12/09/2010 6:25:26 AM PST by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
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To: Pelham

Interesting. Clearly not something many in Washington spend much time thinking about.


39 posted on 12/09/2010 7:21:05 AM PST by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: econjack; FreedomPoster

Here’s something else you might find interesting, Martin Anderson’s memoir:

http://tinyurl.com/2bfsu7m

click on ‘contents’, click on XXII which takes you to page 140.


40 posted on 12/09/2010 9:36:50 PM PST by Pelham (Islam, the mortal enemy of the free world)
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