Posted on 12/03/2010 4:02:45 PM PST by george76
I’m adding to this thread as someone supporting electric (or natural gas, for that matter) powered cars. Anything that’ll get us out of a predicament where we must give roughly 1.3 billion dollars a day to our Muslim enemies.
Even from this perspective, the Volt is an epic fail. It’s clearly an inferior product to the Nissan Leaf.
OK, but you’re not wearing me down.
Of course it isn’t readily available. Yet with an approximate 300 million installed base of gasoline/diesel powered vehicles in the US fleet right now, replacing them with alternatives will necessarily require an investment of another 20 years. Instead of chasing fairy breath and sunbeams with government dollars, investments in extraction of shale would be able to deliver products into an already built-out delivery system.
Well, I’m with ya on the first part.
On the second, you may be right. I understand the Leaf to have a 100 mile range. If that’s enough for you, then it may well be the better product. The Volt can go almost 4x that, so if you need more range, you need more range.
But I am not tied to any one solution. Like I said, I am glad to see some new entries and hope that technology will keep advancing this. If you do any RC flying, you know that the first electrics were wimpy little kites. They now have fully aerobatic models that can hover on their prop and electric ducted fans doing over 200 MPH. If the full-size auto industry can follow a similar technology wave, we may have many more driving options in the future.
http://www.hybridcars.com/news/rising-auto-market-hybrid-car-sales-remain-flat-28984.html There isn’t a great deal of demand for these high tech cars..
wrong! hangs head in shame
26 lbs of coal. Hey, what’s a few orders of magnitude.
tooo funny...
Right - about that ....now we have minors in jeopardy so those people can drive their electric cars ... wonder how that plays out with those folks.
I remember hearing that kind of talk back in the 1970's when we had gas lines. Why haven't we made the progress necessary to make this happen?
Answer: Improvements in internal combustion engine efficiency have negated improvements in solar panels, batteries, motors, etc.
Doing the math, instead of knee jerking:
My car averages 28 mpg according to the trip computer and my own numbers (2004 BMW 325Ci, cost $28k in 2005). It has a 15.4 gal tank giving it a range of 431 miles. Assuming super costs $3.00/gal, filling will cost about $46.20
This yields a cost/mile of $0.107
As for the volt, it will cost $42k - $7500 govt rebate (I’m so glad I can help pay for anothers car). It comes with a 9.3 gal tank, @ 37 mpg, and the battery is good for 35 miles. This gives it an effective range of 380 miles. Now for the cost:
According to the site, the volt needs 10 hours to charge using the 120 volt outlet. It pulls 10 amps yielding 1.2 KWh usage
Assuming the average electric cost of $0.15/KWh, 10 hours would cost $1.50 per charge.
Now add that to the fuel cost: 9.3 gal @ $3.00/gal + $1.50 = $29.40
Cost/mile: $ 0.077/mile
It may be more cost effective, yet more expensive, but it’s not the electric that makes the big difference. It’s the 37 mpg the fuel engine achieves that makes it cheaper.
@ a curb weight of 3500 lbs, its comparable to the 3560 lbs of mine, so it’s not getting the mileage at the expense of weight
There are many vehicle choices out there.
Forcing us taxpayers to give massive tax subsidies to car buyers ( like to a trust fund snob in Martha’s Vineyard ) is terrible on many different levels.
One better option is a mini cooper that starts at $19,000 retail and gets 30 ish mpg ( some claim 40 mpg sometimes ) .
http://www.edmunds.com/mini/cooper/2010/index.html
California electrical rates often go up into the 30 plus cents per Kilowatt hour after the baseline quantities have been met.
http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerservice/financialassistance/medicalbaseline/understand/
New York starts at 19 and Hawaii is mid twenty cents per Kilowatt hour ; others are less.
Batteries are very expensive and must be changed [ The expensive 16-kilowatt-hour battery pack, which likely costs GM somewhere between $8,000 and $12,000 ]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2637196/posts
; plus the mining and disposal of the toxic wastes in the large, heavy batteries is financially and envirnomentally expensive.
Then the safety issues with driving around with a heavy, large toxic waste pile that may get released during an accident.
General Motors says that it will charge $490 for a 240-volt home charging unit for its upcoming Chevrolet Volt extended-range plug-in.
That doesn’t include installation, however, which will run, on average, $1,475.
Grand total, if you don’t have a difficult electrical installation (like upgrading the entire service to your 100-year-old home, or
...”After all, the first gasoline powered cars were nothing to write home about either.”
There’s a huge difference between the current perceived usefulness of the technology presented in the form of the Volt and the formation of the automobile mass-production industry.
Because it is an automobile, the Volt is for the most part, still just another car.
110 years ago, just about any automobile that could be built and driven was something to write home about just as the Wright Brothers did when they got their first kites off the ground.
In WWI, the world was introduced to fighter planes, tanks and motorcycles. Nothing like that will happen with Volt technology. In fact, it’s the last thing you’d want or need on the battlefield unless you consider their potential as dumb bombs to be dropped from large military cargo and transport aircraft.
And please don't take my comments to mean that the Chevy Volt is a great car or the answer to anything. I never said it was, but only that there will be improvements over time.
The gasoline powered car was invented long before those cars that were something to write home about were built 110 years ago, before Ford mass produced them, or before the advancements made during WW1. They were a great idea, but the technology needed to improve before they became feasible for all you described. Here's more.
Nothing like that will happen with Volt technology.
Never say never. You may find the comments about drilling for oil interesting in light of this topic.
And please don't take my comments to mean that the Chevy Volt is a great car or the answer to anything. From what I've read, even the Leaf beats it at its own game.
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