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Secession ball stirs controversy
The SunNews.com ^ | 12-3-2010 | Robert Behre Charleston Post

Posted on 12/03/2010 4:39:40 AM PST by Colonel Kangaroo

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To: TheBigIf
Your side has a cult like love for those who formed the KKK klavern and it traitorous and lawless mentality. So it fits you perfectly fine. So go ahead and be as classless as you want, it fits you.

Show me one post where anyone defends or promotes the KKK A$$hat, so f-off jerkface.

Hey, if they end DADT then even you will be able to join the military, getting excited? Squeal like a pig.

801 posted on 12/14/2010 1:13:45 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

You continually defend the Confederate democrats who formed the KKK. It is also your beloved democrats who continually throughout history have distorted the Constitution as in calling for non-existent rights such as secession, gay marriage, etc… And of course anyone who disagrees with democrats (Confederate or Progressive) get the usual fascist tactic of name-calling. Or of course unless you get even madder and put on your white hood , then I guess you’ll go beyond name-calling in some sort of cowardly sneak attack. You are pathetic.


802 posted on 12/14/2010 1:24:50 PM PST by TheBigIf
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To: rockrr

BTW, who are you, punkrr? You’ve claimed to have been born and raised in at least two different Southern states and you once posted a picture of your ‘back yard’ which turned out to be a snagged photo from Google Images.


803 posted on 12/14/2010 1:25:48 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: rockrr
Now heel you mutt!

Typical yankee neo-nazi.

Don't you find it ironical that you haters of slavery (supposedly) always want people at your feet?

But, since it seems to give you a little self-esteem boost I guess I shouldn't complain. After all, I really feel sorry for you guys, especially during this time of year. I mean, 12 days before Christmas and you've got nothing but your internet connection, your Hitler posters, your Nazi youth application, your DNC card and your American Atheists plaque on the wall of your single wide to keep you warm this holiday season. Oh, and your hate. Lot's of hate...

804 posted on 12/14/2010 1:39:25 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: TheBigIf
You continually defend the Confederate democrats who formed the KKK.

I defend states rights, the two parties have switch since then, socialist/big government party was the Republican Party, now it is the Democrats who are the statists. Show me ONE post where I defend the KKK?

805 posted on 12/14/2010 1:39:45 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: mac_truck

Wow! Look at all those Confederate Battle Flags!

Idiot...

806 posted on 12/14/2010 1:45:11 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: TheBigIf; central_va
You continually defend the Confederate democrats who formed the KKK. It is also your beloved democrats who continually throughout history have distorted the Constitution as in calling for non-existent rights such as secession, gay marriage, etc… And of course anyone who disagrees with democrats (Confederate or Progressive) get the usual fascist tactic of name-calling. Or of course unless you get even madder and put on your white hood , then I guess you’ll go beyond name-calling in some sort of cowardly sneak attack. You are pathetic.

The reason I made mention of my wife and children was for your benefit. My better half's grandfather is 3/4 Cherokee, and his Cherokee ancestors served in the Southern army. His direct lineage is how she joined the United Daughters of the Confederacy.

Now, it does appear that some people want to hold a serious discussion. More reading and less typing would be the best course of action for you.

807 posted on 12/14/2010 1:45:25 PM PST by Idabilly ("I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. ...)
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To: central_va

You defend secession which is not a state right. You defend the treason of the Confederate democrats. There are many posts to show this. It is also you who wanted to throw around the accusation that Lincoln supporters were a part of a Coven. Now you are acting like a hysterical spoiled child because I pointed out the fact that the Confederates you support formed the KKK klavern or coven. So as I said the name ‘KKK klavern’ fits you and your fellow rebels while the stupid little ‘coven’ insult you make is just like the rest of your insults… meaningless.


808 posted on 12/14/2010 1:49:52 PM PST by TheBigIf
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To: raygun
My contention is that the rebel States never actually seceded. Re-admission being merely a fancy political term for when they became eligible for Federal Revenue funds-sharing.

A wonderful example of complete and total revisionist history.

Carry on, yank...

809 posted on 12/14/2010 1:53:01 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: Idabilly

Considering that I am responding to others here of the Confederate KKK klavern (term of endearment) and not posting in order to continue this aspect of the discussion then it is these others who you should address and not me. The constant attacks by ‘central va’ and ‘cow boy gay’ are pathetic and simply an attempt to whitewash the history of those that they defend.


810 posted on 12/14/2010 1:54:51 PM PST by TheBigIf
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To: rockrr; TheBigIf
Yep. Most of us got over it.

Bwahahahahaha!!!! Then why is every thread about anything loosely regarding The Confederacy liberally populated with yours and (listen for it thebigif!) The Coven's acerbic comments and vitriolic personal attacks?

Got over it my ass...

811 posted on 12/14/2010 1:58:21 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: southernsunshine
Parli Italiano? In case you don't, do you speak Italian?

Un po'. I had some Spanish in high school and college and between that and dating a girl from near Bologna for a couple of years, I can do okay when I go visit the cousins in the old country. Italian and Spanish are pretty close, and where they differ they differ consistently so with some Spanish you can usually guess the Italian or at least communicate.

My family is from way up north, almost Switzerland. Mountain people. We're going again next October.

This is the town.

This the church where my great grandparents were married.

812 posted on 12/14/2010 2:00:29 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

So, you come from a long line of hillbillies...heeheehee...


813 posted on 12/14/2010 2:03:06 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: cowboyway
Wow! Look at all those Confederate Battle Flags!

Yep.

Klan-nazis at rally in Charlotte NC.

814 posted on 12/14/2010 2:09:40 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: TheBigIf
Considering that I am responding to others here of the Confederate KKK klavern (term of endearment) and not posting in order to continue this aspect of the discussion then it is these others who you should address and not me. The constant attacks by ‘central va’ and ‘cow boy gay’ are pathetic and simply an attempt to whitewash the history of those that they defend.

There's a first for everything! You didn't list me with my compatriots. Just goes to show that you're stuck on stupid.

815 posted on 12/14/2010 2:21:40 PM PST by Idabilly ("I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. ...)
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To: rustbucket
A lot of people probably do not realize there was (or is) significant coal mining in Illinois.

My grandfather worked alongside his father and older brothers in the mines for a while. He didn't like it much and eventually got a job as a millwright at a local factory, where he worked for the next 35 years. He just died this past June at age 90. Some of my most prized possessions are a pocket knife with the name of the coal company he worked for on the handle, a small lapel pin for completing the mine safety course in 1936 and the carbide lamp he used.

It was all pretty low grade coal in that area, and between trains going to diesel and people stopping using it in home heating, there was no demand for Illinois coal anymore. All the mines pretty much closed down after WW2.

816 posted on 12/14/2010 2:45:44 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: mac_truck

Some of your immediate family?


817 posted on 12/14/2010 2:45:52 PM PST by cowboyway (Molon labe : Deo Vindice : "Rebellion is always an option!!"--Jim Robinson)
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To: raygun; TheBigIf; rustbucket
If I interpret that correctly, Adams is arguing that its ethical for the people to seccede but it is immoral.

John Quincy Adams, while delivering his eulogy for former President James Madison, talked about Jeffersonian principles and secession:

Concurring in the doctrines that the separate States have a right to interpose in cases of palpable infraction of the constitution by the government of the United States, and that the alien and sedition acts presented a case of such infraction, Mr. Jefferson considered them as absolutely null and void, and thought the State legislatures competent, not only to declare, but to make them so, to resist their execution within their respective borders by physical force, and to secede from the Union, rather than to submit to them, if attempted to be carried into execution by force.

If one believes the concept this nation was formed by the grace of God, the onus of God's wrath respecting its dissolution falls squarely upon seccionists heads. Its one thing to revolt against tyranny, but do the principle reasons for seccessoin rise to the degree of egregiousness whereby that which was forged with the blood of patriots is warranted to be discarded so easily as yesterday's sodden fish wrap?

I think you're confused. It was the Federal Government that rebelled against what confined it, the Constitution. The South simply wanted out. They entered the Union with a stroke of the pen and they left with that same stroke. The Constitutional compact was broken, the agreement was dead. As one Confederate General said:

The causes of the war will be found at the foundation of our political fabric, in our complex organism, in the fundamental law, in the Constitution itself, in the conflicting constructions which it invited, and in the institution of slavery which it recognized and was intended to protect. If asked what was the real issue involved in our unparalleled conflict, the average American citizen will reply, "The negro"; and it is fair to say that had there been no slavery there would have been no war. But there would have been no slavery if the South's protests could have availed when it was first introduced; and now that it is gone, although its sudden and violent abolition entailed upon the South directly and incidentally a series of woes which no pen can describe, yet it is true that in no section would its reestablishment be more strongly and universally resisted. The South steadfastly maintains that responsibility for the presence of this political Pandora's box in this Western world cannot be laid at her door. When the Constitution was adopted and the Union formed, slavery existed in practically all the States; and it is claimed by the Southern people that its disappearance from the Northern and its development in the Southern States is due to climatic conditions and industrial exigencies rather than to the existence or absence of great moral ideas. Slavery was undoubtedly the immediate fomenting cause of the woeful American conflict. It was the great political factor around which the passions of the sections had long been gathered--the tallest pine in the political forest around whose top the fiercest lightnings were to blaze and whose trunk was destined to be shivered in the earthquake shocks of war. But slavery was far from being the sole cause of the prolonged conflict. Neither its destruction on the one hand, nor its defence on the other, was the energizing force that held the contending armies to four years of bloody work. I apprehend that if all living Union soldiers were summoned to the witness stand, every one of them would testify that it was the preservation of the American Union and not the destruction of Southern slavery that induced him to volunteer at the call of his country. As for the South, it is enough to say that perhaps eighty per cent. of her armies were neither slave-holders, nor had the remotest interest in the institution. No other proof, however, is needed than the undeniable fact that at any period of the war from its beginning to near its close the South could have saved slavery by simply laying down its arms and returning to the Union.

It appears as if he considers the State of the Union to consist of all members and if Ringo wants out, or - heaven forbid Harrison - let alone merely Lennon (or least of all Paul), the Beatles would no more be a group; likewise, even the least of the States, e.g., CA, or NY secession (not even contemplating the horrors of R.I. departing) would require the individual States to confederate, attack Britain, and after its re-defeat reseat delegates for the Second Constitutional Convention to reform a new-improved perfect Union. Mind you, a more perfect Union is one thing, but that was the 19th century after all, so a more-prefect more perfect-Union was definitely called for.

Call it a war of terminologies. I say "mine", you say "yours". Daniel Webster believed as you do, and as Lincoln did. It was that whole terminology thing again. What is a State? Is it not the people that reside in it? Then there's that whole Federal vs National Government issue that needs attention. Solving the first issue of who or what is a State there was this letter that James Madison wrote to Webster correcting him over his "one people" theory:

It is fortunate when disputed theories, can be decided by undisputed facts. And here the undisputed fact is, that the Constitution was made by the people, but as embodied into the several States, who were parties to it; and therefore made by the States in their highest authoritative capacity.

And the Virginia Report:

The constitution of the United States was formed by the sanction of the states, given by each in its sovereign capacity. It adds to the stability and dignity, as well as to the authority, of the constitution, that it rests upon this legitimate and solid foundation. The states, then, being the parties to the constitutional compact, and in their sovereign capacity, it follows of necessity that there can be no tribunal above their authority to decide, in the last resort, whether the compact made by them be violated and consequently that, as the parties to it, they must themselves decide, in the last resort, such questions as may be of sufficient magnitude to require their interposition.

818 posted on 12/14/2010 3:16:24 PM PST by Idabilly ("I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. ...)
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To: Idabilly

Ever wonder why they don’t spend as much time fixated on black on white racism or black cultural morass as they do worrying about Rebel flags?

Well I can tell you...it would mean introspection and that ain’t fer sissies.

That’s why...poor things.


819 posted on 12/14/2010 3:33:09 PM PST by wardaddy ("Out Here" by Josh Thompson pretty much says it all to those who will never understand anyhow)
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To: cowboyway
So, you come from a long line of hillbillies...heeheehee...

Hillbillies come from further down the mountain. The family can actually be traced back to Switzerland about 700 years ago. They're Lombards.

820 posted on 12/14/2010 3:35:06 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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