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ATF position on pistol grip 'shotguns' creates new danger
Gun Rights Examiner ^
| November 14, 2010
| David Codrea
Posted on 11/18/2010 6:18:55 PM PST by optiguy
click here to read article
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To: smokingfrog
Please do not bring one to to SoCal on a hot windy day and find out.
21
posted on
11/18/2010 6:52:57 PM PST
by
BenLurkin
(This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
To: Disambiguator
Exactly. In my state, a shotgun with a barrel shorter than 18” is strictly verboten.
22
posted on
11/18/2010 6:53:25 PM PST
by
Bloody Sam Roberts
(An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.)
To: optiguy
Any law which leaves itself to “reinterpretation” as the F-troop does with gun laws is a bad law and should be repealed entirely. Not amended. And those pencil pushers who spend their days doing the reinterpretation should lose their jobs (at least).
23
posted on
11/18/2010 6:53:25 PM PST
by
coloradan
(The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
To: Disambiguator
Having an NFA weapon is perfectly legal in most states. Having it re-classified as AOW or destructive device presents a whole new set of problems for the owner. As owners, we have submitted to FBI, local law enforcement as well as Treasury. The last thing we need is one more hoop to jump through. It’s bad enough that I have to worry about a non-NFA weapon slam firing and being deemed to be a machine gun, or owning a semi-auto AR and some AFT flunkie deeming my kids air soft rifle parts to be interchangeable and thus sending me to the slammer if he thinks it will further his career. We don’t need any more bullshit.
24
posted on
11/18/2010 6:57:56 PM PST
by
optiguy
(Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.----- Ronald Reagan)
To: optiguy
“Saiga makes a good gun...so I hear ;)”
Get the Tromix conversion.
25
posted on
11/18/2010 6:58:33 PM PST
by
SVTCobra03
(You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
To: SVTCobra03
26
posted on
11/18/2010 7:04:09 PM PST
by
optiguy
(Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.----- Ronald Reagan)
To: optiguy
Ok, now that they have said that, with their record of writing laws that are unconstitutional, how long do you think it will be, before they look at all those Taurus Judges out there, including that new Judge rifle, and wonder what they could do? They are .410ga./.45 LC. Mighty close to that definition, aren’t they?
We have already ridden ourselves of the Prohibition. The federal government legally taxes tobacco. The Supreme Court ruled on the 2nd Amendment. The ATF has no definable existence, now. And yes, I would say that to their faces, with a smile, and speak the word, “Waco!”
To: Ouderkirk
Who the hell takes a pistol grip shotgun hunting? Not me. A pistol gripped shot gun is strictly for personal protection in the home.
Johnny Rutherford, Indy Racing champion, hunted with a pistol grip shotgun because he had broken his wrist racing.
28
posted on
11/18/2010 7:12:25 PM PST
by
USNBandit
(sarcasm engaged at all times)
To: optiguy
So do the pistol grips make the shotgun shoot harder?
Is it like putting speed equipment decals on your car gives it more horsepower?
29
posted on
11/18/2010 7:12:42 PM PST
by
ROCKLOBSTER
(Celebrate: Republicans freed the slaves Month.)
To: BenLurkin
30
posted on
11/18/2010 7:20:36 PM PST
by
al baby
(Hi Mom REMEMBER FREE REPUBLIC IN YOUR WILL. I DID)
To: optiguy
Would the Taurus "judge" be considered a pistol grip shotgun? I just bought one a few months back. Pretty fun gun!
31
posted on
11/18/2010 7:21:48 PM PST
by
diverteach
(If I find liberals in heaven after my death.....I WILL BE PISSED!!!)
To: optiguy
“Once again, the BATFE show their brilliance.”
My thoughts exactly.
What a bunch of DOLTS.
32
posted on
11/18/2010 7:22:23 PM PST
by
Gabrial
(The Whitehouse Nightmare will continue as long as the Nightmare is in the Whitehouse)
To: optiguy
This is much more complicated than the post leads on. First, this gun is special not because it has a pistol grip, but because it never had a buttstock. It was manufactured with a pistol grip in place of the buttstock. I bet most people here with shotguns that have pistol grips also have buttstocks.
Secondly, I don't understand how it's not excluded under the destructive device's large caliber weapon subsection by the following:
This portion of the definition specifically excludes a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.
Unless this was not designed to fire shotgun shells.
33
posted on
11/18/2010 7:23:25 PM PST
by
andyk
(Hi, my name's Andy, and I was a BF 1942 / Desert Combat junkie.)
To: optiguy
Wouldnt it save a lot of time if the ATF just admitted their position on all firearms is that Americans shouldnt have them?
34
posted on
11/18/2010 7:26:20 PM PST
by
Raider Sam
(They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
To: diverteach
35
posted on
11/18/2010 7:27:01 PM PST
by
Gabrial
(The Whitehouse Nightmare will continue as long as the Nightmare is in the Whitehouse)
To: optiguy
The ATF letter is wrong. A shotgun with a barrel less than eighteen inches is a NFA firearm. It's a short barreled shotgun subject to registration and a $200.00 tax. What is new here is that the BATFE is saying now that a shotgun that has a pistol grip and a bore greater than .5 inch is not "particularly suitable for sporting purposes" and is therefore a destructive device (DD). BATF did the same thing with the Street Sweeper shotguns. They gave owners a short time to either register it (they waved the $200 tax), or destroy it, or turn it in.
Some of the wording in the 1934 National Firearms Act (NFA) that was made part of the 1968 Gun Control Act (GCA68)is very confusing. What is a defined as a firearm under the GCA68 is not a "firearm" in the NFA definitions. NFA "firearms" (that require registration) are machineguns, short-barrel rifles and shotguns, silencers and destructive devices, and "any other weapons". Any other weapons (AOW) like cane guns and briefcases that a weapon can be fired out of for example, are subject to registration and a $5.00 tax. I think the person that submitted his short-barreled shotgun for examination was trying to get away with paying the AOW $5.00 instead of $200.00 due on a short-barreled shotgun.
36
posted on
11/18/2010 7:32:14 PM PST
by
bruoz
To: optiguy
"...any determination that they are particularly suitable for sporting purposes would be irrelevant by their own definition."Who gives a sh1t if they're "suitable for sporting purposes?"
Where in the Second Amendment does it discuss "sporting purposes?"
Give me a good old Model 97 trench gun for quail hunting any day!
lol
37
posted on
11/18/2010 7:33:07 PM PST
by
Redbob
(W.W.J.B.D.: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
To: ROCKLOBSTER
Strangely enough, grips do nothing to increase muzzle velocity or lethality. Reminds me of the pre-ban guns that had bayonet lugs. All of a sudden ATF (congress) was worried about drive-by bayonettings.
38
posted on
11/18/2010 7:35:34 PM PST
by
optiguy
(Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.----- Ronald Reagan)
To: andyk
This is much more complicated than the post leads on. First, this gun is special not because it has a pistol grip, but because it never had a buttstock
when I was very young, 50 or so years ago, my grandpa had arthritis in his hands and could no longer go deer hunting with us.....I made, and installed on his gun, a “pistol grip”....was it professionaly designed,no, was it beautiful,no, did it allow grandpa to resume hunting....you bet it did and he could hold his gun very steady indeed!!!!!He loved it and I loved going hunting with him!!!!!
39
posted on
11/18/2010 7:40:13 PM PST
by
terycarl
(interested and informed)
To: optiguy
Strangely enough, grips do nothing to increase muzzle velocity I wonder what would happen if we put "Mooneyes" and "Thrush Muffler" decals on our shotguns.
40
posted on
11/18/2010 7:44:40 PM PST
by
ROCKLOBSTER
(Celebrate: Republicans freed the slaves Month.)
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