Posted on 10/30/2010 4:03:35 PM PDT by Rashputin
Whatever happened to the unity of the Catholic church? I constantly hear criticism of Protestantism for all their different factions and denominations and Catholics brag on how their church is one and united.
And yet every time some Catholic representative says something that embarrasses FRoman Catholics, they throw him under the bus.
Aren't these Catholic ordained priests? Didn't they go to Catholic seminary? Aren't they each an alter Christus? Once a priest, always a priest?
Then why are they and the different rites disowned every time they speak out and FRoman Catholics disagree with them? Who are the laity to condemn the priests? What gave them that authority? Did they go to seminary as well? Are THEY presuming to speak for the Vatican themselves?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Please do not fall into the Dispensationalist trap. "Supersessionism" and "replacement" are pejorative terms not worthy of Christian theological discussion. The Jewish apostles and Hebrew faithful did not supersede or replace anything. The cultivated branches remained attached to the tree of spiritual Israel by following their Messiah in the time of their visitation. They were a continuation, not replacement, of spiritual Israel that became know as the Church.
Those who did not follow Christ were broken off from spiritual Israel and disinherited from the Abrahamic promises.
In Catholic theology the Church fulfills but does not replace, Israel as God’s people.
Obviously, the first members of the Church could not have replaced themselves. I hope you are not denying that Christians are Gods people or saying that people with no Christian faith can be Gods people on the basis of bloodline. That is certainly not Catholic teaching.
I don't think anyone, moreover, would wish to contend for a schizophrenic God too weak and too limited in His omniscience to foresee the future that He foreordained, a God Who it would then be necessary to argue found that He made a mistake and must come up with a second plan for salvation for the gentiles.
Replacement Theology is perfectly logical to this Reformed protestant. I don't see any rational alternative that honors and glorifies God, nor do I see any contradiction as all who believe savingly on Christ, whether Jew or gentile, are indeed of God's chosen people.
An interesting family: the child nullifies father's promises... Very interesting.
You are right. But, your remarks made me recall, there were no crusades when Goths sacked Rome. Nor were any when Saracens took over Constantinople. In fact, wasn't is Crusaders who once sacked Constantinople themselves.
Peoples, nations and, apparently, religions as well have a tendency to commit suicide.
As I understand it, the spokesperson/Bishop is a Bishop of a Roman Catholic Diocese called that.
I read no statement from the Vatican. An Archbishop of the Greek Melkite Church does not speak for the Vatican.
MetMom:
Whatever happened to the unity of the Catholic church? I constantly hear criticism of Protestantism for all their different factions and denominations and Catholics brag on how their church is one and united.
And yet every time some Catholic representative says something that embarrasses FRoman Catholics, they throw him under the bus.
Aren't these Catholic ordained priests? Didn't they go to Catholic seminary? Aren't they each an alter Christus? Once a priest, always a priest?
Then why are they and the different rites disowned every time they speak out and FRoman Catholics disagree with them? Who are the laity to condemn the priests? What gave them that authority? Did they go to seminary as well? Are THEY presuming to speak for the Vatican themselves?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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REGULAR FONT
VERY WELL PUT! As I understand it, the spokesperson/Bishop is a Bishop of a Roman Catholic Diocese called that.
METMOM:
I read no statement from the Vatican. An Archbishop of the Greek Melkite Church does not speak for the Vatican. Whatever happened to the unity of the Catholic church? I constantly hear criticism of Protestantism for all their different factions and denominations and Catholics brag on how their church is one and united.
And yet every time some Catholic representative says something that embarrasses FRoman Catholics, they throw him under the bus.
Aren't these Catholic ordained priests? Didn't they go to Catholic seminary? Aren't they each an alter Christus? Once a priest, always a priest?
Then why are they and the different rites disowned every time they speak out and FRoman Catholics disagree with them? Who are the laity to condemn the priests? What gave them that authority? Did they go to seminary as well? Are THEY presuming to speak for the Vatican themselves?
Inquiring minds want to know.
I don’t really have anything to add to what the Apostle Paul revealed about this particular mystery in Romans 11:
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”[h]
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor?”[i] 35 “ Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Actually ... it says both Abraham AND his descendants will possess it ...
Since Abraham never did ... just this fact ALONE means the fulfillment is still future.
INDEED.
After Christ vanquishes all HIS foes at Armageddon . . . He will most likely tend to that important detail.
2 Timothy 2:15 would solve a LOT of problems, if it were actually practiced. Of course, it would completely blow straight up entire religions in the process. Which is why it is ignored, I’m sure.
I think many in our day have a God who is too small. I think, moreover, that the chastisement we have received as a people can be traced to this. We are not a great people as we were 200 years ago. This is because our God, in our time, is not (perceived as) great. He's perceived as a God who makes mistakes. He (in this view) made a mistake with the Jews, but is obligated to keep his promise in a literal, earthly sense. He is not permitted to be God. We put Him in our little boxes. We get caught up in these little end times scenarios predicated on the flawed dispensational theology of Darby, invented in the 1800s and embellished by the likes of Hal Lindsey and countless others. We lose sight of God's greatness, and are no longer intoxicated with His glory, with the wonder of providence.
We cannot fathom a God who is other than a big, warm, fuzzy Santa Claus-like entity. We cannot tolerate a God of righteousness, a God who both softens and hardens, a God who both saves and damns. We are unable to bear a notion of a God Whose glory displaces our interests, nor to accept that we exist for His pleasure, at His pleasure, and for His purposes.
That is why we have shriveled to a people of small stature, not great like our American forebears.
Yes it is. I would add "unfulfilled by Jews outside of Christ."
Good questions. Whatever happened to the Pope being Christ’s representative on earth? Seems to me he should have it together a little better than he appears to, with these rogue speakers going off all willy-nilly, usurping his authority and appearing to NOT be able to keep their pie-holes shut. If I didn’t know better, I would think there is a shadow pope who knows exactly what is going on, and is writing the script every day.
We know the dollar continues to fall and countries are not happy...trade wars are in the wind and the G-20/IMF/World Bank etc. failed to establish what they had stated they would and instead kicked the can down the road. Additionally many countries are fast on the move positioning themsleves... Governments see what is coming and are transferring their wealth to gold and silver. And our FED just keeps on proping things up with quanitive Easing and printing more money in hopes our economy doesn't collapse. Also various natural disasters, which normally would not be a drain on food and medicine reserves are quickly being exhausted as donations etc. have lessened.
Not to sound morbid but things are not going to get better real soon. We know there will be a falling away from supporting Israel...but I did not want to see this in my lifetime! It truly is very distressing to see this. I watched a debate on the BBC tonight...the anger and tension in the room was felt even thru the TV to any listening or watching. Palestinians are so hateful and insistent they are victims of Israel...the victim card gets played at every turn...they will never stop their hate regardless of any talks.
Hearing the Bishops speak as they did was just another piece in the puzzle drawing closer to the bigger picture we know will come. Who would have guessed the world stage would be moving at the pace it is now...but then ‘money’ and the power it welds has always been a motivator to turn the tides....
OK, folks, in this instance, it’s like when your kid says something he cooked up himself, and then passes it off as something that “dad said”. No, dad did not say any such thing.
As a Protestant, I am sickened to see so many criticizing the Pope without first checking all the facts in the case. Don’t jump to conclusions so fast...
I will be with ya, though, if the Pope were to repeat such questionable statements as have been made by others in this instance. He isn’t going to confirm the misguided opinions, though, IMHO. How could he? Doing so would undermine faith as based on the Bible and Church Tradition, too.
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should not be ignorant of this mystery,... lest you should be wise in your own opinion,..... that BLINDNESS IN PART has happened to Israel UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES HAS COME IN the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED,....
Good post...plainly stated...Israel is blind for our sake but will turn to Christ when it is their time. I for one would be devastated if I believed possible God would destroy those He called His own indefinately...their blindness to the Gospel Message opened the way for us and i am most grateful for that...what hope would we have then? None. It would have been the end of the story for all us Gentiles had Israel fully accepted Christ.
Thank you.
It is also the location of the Basilica of St Peter, and the residence of the the Catholic Pope, the successor of Peter.
The synod refered to has no connectin whatsoever to the Catholic Church --- or the Pope.
Writing the headline to make it appear otherwise is either total ignorance or incompetence.
for your Christian Supporters of Israel ping list
You sir, are an idiot.
And, incidentally, you neglected to also list muslims, who rejected the United Nations resolution creating the state of "palestine," which the terrorist muslims promptly rejected.
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