Posted on 10/13/2010 3:04:13 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
Ow shucks (looks down, kicks dirt with foot)maybe you guys aren't so bad after all. :)
STE=Q
Thank You! I figure I am lazy really. I don’t lie because I just don’t want to be bothered to keep track of lies. So I tell the truth. It’s easy to remember and takes no effort at all. See, I’m just lazy. :)
Problem solved. New Orly thread just posted. We can fight over there. :)
Let’s not get sloppy.
;p
That's more like it.
No Problem Danae. :-) Butter doesn’t seem to be online today.
I think it shows a home birth with an address listed. Home births could be late registered for up to a year after birth in 1961 Hawaii. Literally a baby could have been born anywhere, brought to Hawaii and then registered there. Once they had a colb, issued by the state - they had a form of birth certificate which also would give them US Citizenship. This went on a LOT I suspect. Hawaii has had a LOT of immigrants over the years.
So that being said... What I want to know is if Obama Sr is really Obamas dad, and if not was his real father listed and is he a citizen? I also want to know if an address is listed and a late birth registration got Obama his birth certificate. Because if it does, then Hawaii cannot prove he was born on the island. Hawaii doesn’t particularly want an investigation started which could reveal the depth of the foreign born baby scam. That is why I think they are covering Obamas arse. They are covering their own. Obama just happens to know about all this and has used it as leverage. But not well enough to force them to verify him. Nancy had to do that for him, and that is blatantly unconstitutional.
For what ever that’s worth, that’s what I think about that.
But for me, I really don’t care where he was born. His dad is British. That means Obama is British. He couldn’t have been an NBC no matter where Stanly Ann had him.
That’s what I think anyhow. I would not be surprised to be wrong. There are some unprovens in there.
And I'm going to miss all the fun!
It's late where I am and I'm tired.
Gotta hit the sack.
Good night everybody!
STE=Q
Kudos to El Sordo, and to Jamese who finally coughed up!!
I never thought I would feel sorrow for Juan Williams, however, after seeing him canned from NPR as a result of strangling his "Free Speech" about the muzzies, I sure know how he feels now. I felt the same way after Mr. WKA caused MY "free speech" to be violated by having my post 936 removed!!!
Is the First Amendment sinking???
Thank you sir! But El Sordo deserves the credit!
A lady "hooking" up with a man in "enemy" territory, LOL!!
That's pretty cool and brave!!!
The Elg decision also talks about the treaty between Norway/Sweden and the United States, in which it says, “nothing is said in the treaty which in such a case would destroy the right of election which appropriately belongs to the child on attaining majority. If the abrogation of that right had been in contemplation, it would naturally have been the subject of a provision suitably explicit. Rights of citizenship are not to be destroyed by an ambiguity.” This would suggest that if the other country did NOT allow a child to claim dual citizenship, the U.S. would be unable to do anything about it. In regard to Indonesia, there’s no ambiguity about its citizenship. They do not allow dual citizenship.
And if you go back to my previous post, I mentioned, “The key part is whether Obama was at some point considered (by himself or others) and ACTED as a sole citizen of Indonesia ...” This idea is echoed in the Elg decision, “such child upon arriving of age, or within a reasonable time thereafter, must make election between the citizenship which is his by birth and the citizenship which is his by parentage.” Putting aside that Obama was apparently a British subject at birth and not clearly a U.S. citizen, the question remains, did he elect to remain a citizen of Indonesia, even after returning to Hawaii to live with his grandparents and upon going to college?? Did he ever legally elect to be a U.S. citizen??
What's your basis for assuming this?? The state department's foreign affairs manual says, "d. Requests for Certificates of Loss of Nationality (CLN): (1) Although the PA applies only to persons who are U.S. citizens or permanent resident aliens, the Department’s policy has been to refuse to confirm or deny the citizenship status of a person to a third party, other than an agency as allowed by the PA."
Yes, and nothing on those lists, that I recall, is public information. Can you provide a counterexample?
Some of the information should be available through freedom of information requests, such as his mom's passport records which were recently released but incomplete. In addition we would expect to see a marriage license for his parents, his college thesis, Illinois state bar records and Illinois state senate records. As a public figure and as president, there's really no reason his 'private' records should be withheld either.
What evidence do you have that he believed he lost his citizenship?
He was listed as an Indonesian citizen on his school registration in Indonesia and Indonesian law does not allow dual citizenship. There should have been no reason to list him that way if he was NOT an Indonesian citizen.
Why would he have to re-establish something he never lost?
This is a stupid question when you start breaking down individual phrases from a post rather than addressing the whole of what was written. The best available evidence at this point says Obama was an Indonesian citizen and there are no documents addressing his citizenship after that point, with the exception of his presidential passport 40 years later. It's the stuff in between that needs to be established.
Why would he do such a thing? What possible benefit could he derive from this?
If he still had Indonesian citizenship, he would have been required to declare it. No one said he had to benefit from it.
You have no evidence of any criminal fraud.
The state of Hawaii refuses to confirm the legitimacy of Obama's alleged COLB. The certificate number and publication of his birth announcement does not match the sequence of known certificates. Hawaii also indicated through statutory responses that Obama's COLB was amended and as such, that should be indicated on his COLB in some fashion. Fraudulent birth certificates fall under federal criminal statutes.
1. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person’s allegiance.
2. Dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country.
3. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country.
4. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice.
5. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
Nah! From my perspective, I was meeting a fellow FReeper. I didnt even consider his position on it until someone pointed it out after he put up his very kind post, I was not expecting that! I just wanted some other person know that the dang thugs I have are real. That right there had me over the moon!!
“Did he ever legally elect to be a U.S. citizen??”
Under US law, by default he would remain a US citizen. We can pretty well say he hasn’t held a policy level position in a foreign government, and he hasn’t taken up arms in attack on the US, and he hasn’t been found guilty of treason in a US court...so unless he traveled overseas as an adult AND while overseas went to a consulate and swore an oath renouncing his US citizenship, then he is still a US citizen.
“Putting aside that Obama was apparently a British subject at birth and not clearly a U.S. citizen...”
If he was born in the USA, then he clearly is a US citizen. Period. I’ve actually never even seen a birther deny that before. NBC...some deny it, although I think the legal argument very poor - as does the US Supreme Court, since it refuses to take the cases - but at least SOME case can be made there. But there is no doubt whatsoever that if he was born in the US, he was born a US citizen.
There's no 'default' in this situation. The case you cited earlier said that there's only a default if there is any ambiguity. Indonesia law does NOT allow dual citizenship, so there is no ambiguity.
“What evidence do you have that he believed he lost his citizenship? / He was listed as an Indonesian citizen on his school registration in Indonesia and Indonesian law does not allow dual citizenship.”
As you know, edge919, that is irrelevant. Even if he became an Indonesian citizen by his parents actions in taking him there, it would have NO IMPACT at all on his US citizenship. NONE. A 10 year old child is not legally capable of losing his US citizenship by birth.
Unless he wasn't a US citizen by birth.
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