Posted on 09/17/2010 8:33:36 AM PDT by Kaslin
When was the last time you had a “business” interaction with a cop?
I have personally seen to it that one CHP officer went to jail and two others were reassigned to Death Valley. I hate bad cops and it has been years since I met good one.
The radio traffic has been released, and it's in the dispatcher statements.
So it's been stated. Does that mean you don't pay heed to the store employee who tells you guns aren't allowed? /just ask'n
Really, all the sign does is stop on before they enter.
So, he was tired, he was shopping and he didn't feel like dealing with the d!ckhead that was hassling him, he just wanted to buy his stuff and go home.
Show me where in the laws that is punished by a public summary death sentence.
>>Let’s say there’s a big old sign that says, among other things that there are no firearms allowed in the park. Does that make the arrest legitimate?
>
>Hmmm. Well, if the state law says it’s ok to carry in parks I think that would render the, assuming it’s a towns law, void.
Well, the State Constitution is supposedly the highest non-US Constitution law of the land (state).
>>Does this information change the answer you would have given above?
>
>Certainly gives one pause to be sure. For me, I have CCW’s for years and would never open carry. That’s just me, but you raise a great point. I guess it all comes down to how far we’d like to take it, ya know?
Indeed. I’m tempted to push the issue.
I could raise Seven Shit Storms, legally speaking...
Imagine:
I could call myself in to the police for carrying openly in the city-park and demanding that the officer arrests me.
(Hopefully they would use more than just one police officer to make the arrest... but that comes into play later.)
In court:
1 — Challenge the validity of the *law* under which I was arrested according to Art II, Sec 4.
2 — Challenge the validity of the *law* under which I was arrested according to Art II, Sec 6.
3 — Challenge the validity of the *arrest* itself, based on #1.
4 — Challenge the validity of the *arrest* itself, based on #2.
5 — Challenge the validity of the *law* under Art II, Sec 1.
6 — Charge the arresting officers on the basis of this law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000241——000-.html
7 — Charge the [entire] state legislature on the basis of the above.
Ah, I can almost smell the Chaos.
[NM State Constitution, Art II: http://www.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=query&iid=6c1804dd.55b72e94.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%27nmc%20artii%27%5D ]
same article states one of the *orders* was "drop it" or "put it down"...which myself and several other posters have already ribbed you about...very possibly in a split second he thought 'disarming' would diffuse their adrenaline ???
most witness accounts indicate that he prolly didnt even realize that he was a target, he was simply evacuating as instructed along with the herd, then was suddenly singled out and given conflicting commands, merely seconds before the opened up...not much chance to logically think thru the proper response to their conflict, unless you rehearse the scenario regularly...
any *reach* was/would be a mistake for sure...but the one certainty is that if the cops hadnt showed up in a frenzy, because somebody saw a *GASP* gun, he wouldntve been shot...
>.it seems from the article that he voluntarily said “I’m disarming”, and started to move his arm down...that’s not what the cops wanted him to do...they wanted him to follow THEIR instructions not his own...he wasn’t complying
So “Drop the weapon!!” /= an instruction to disarm?
How do you get that?
Except one of the commands that witness heard was "Drop it!"
You know what I do if cops points a gun at me shouting three different commands? I put my hands up, palms toward him and don't move a muscle until they calms down. They'll arrest me for "not obeying police" or even "restisting arrest" but if they blow me away and the cruiser camara catches it, at least they'll be doing some hard time.
wear yer kevlar...8^}
>>So it’s been stated. Does that mean you don’t pay heed to the store employee who tells you guns aren’t allowed?
>
>So, he was tired, he was shopping and he didn’t feel like dealing with the d!ckhead that was hassling him, he just wanted to buy his stuff and go home.
>Show me where in the laws that is punished by a public summary death sentence.
Exodus 20:3 — 3 “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Who said ANYTHING about law & death? Quit throwing everything & the kitchen sink in the mix.
So, he was tired, he was shopping and he didn't feel like dealing with the d!ckhead that was hassling him
That's a BS excuse & you know it. When you choose to take on the responsibility of CCW, you have to conduct yourself a little differently than if you weren't.....
For example, here in CT., if you're carrying and some ass wants to start a fight with you, you have to walk away, and (in my case) a 6'-4" pussy. Because if I take the bait & fight while carrying & the cops come, even though my gun NEVER came out, was never even seen, I now get arrested for assault with a deadly weapon. FACT.
Or, should I just conduct myself as if I wasn't carrying?
Look, we're on the same side here. This story begs a ton of questions and the only one I asked was "why didn't he leave when told of the story policy by the employee"?
>wear yer kevlar...8^}
Well, I didn’t make the laws.... but I don’t see why I should subject myself to being beaten into submitting with those very laws without using them against the very people assailing me with those laws.
One of Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” was to force those who claimed some moral standing to live up to their own moral-code and then condemn them when they failed. But it works both ways, I can take the moral-code they have decided to impose upon me [i.e. the law] and demand that *they* live up to it.
Of course there’s the slight problem of “the laws don’t apply to me”-attitude that many in our government have, but this could work in the favor of any legal-action against the government [assuming a jury is involved] because the alienation of the government from their people sows distrust of the government among those very people. {A long-winded way to say that this is merely a specific instance of “you reap what you sow.”}
>That’s a BS excuse & you know it. When you choose to take on the responsibility of CCW, you have to conduct yourself a little differently than if you weren’t.....
Which is why everyone should openly carry. ;)
To each his own. I prefer to keep it concealed.
>>Which is why everyone should openly carry. ;)
>
>To each his own. I prefer to keep it concealed.
*nod* - At least you didn’t use that ridiculous “tactical advantage” line that some of the pro-CCW/anti-OC types use, so thanks.
LOL
No, not me. My thinking.......the more people we get to carry, the better.
Have a great weekend,
Pete
You have a good weekend too.
youve mentioned in passing that you were thinkin of a situation to strangle the system under its own conflicting statutes...this happened to be the first specifics ive seen...
set up a legal defense fund, contact any pro 2A groups and inform em, hell mr Gura might like to help too, inform the 'press' such as it is [they love 'gotcha' stuff too] so that the initial face-to-face is more controlled, so to speak, and finally, wear the kevlar...
dont forget to have a good breakfast, most jail food sucks and is only dished out on schedule...
bury em under their own weight is the next best option before going to the final box...
I heard a rumor when asked about the tapes a cop said to put them uppa US./s
There seems to be a small number of FReepers who have a rabid hatred of police. Perhaps they’ve had some unfortunate personal experiences. I know that can color how you see things. However, while I know people who have been treated horribly by the police and the system and I know our justice system is imperfect, I also know that in an emergency I will rely on cops, who daily put their lives on the line, even for the same people who call them jack booted thugs.
Having said that, I don’t know what happened in this case. I hope the truth comes out and I feel very badly for the family of the deceased. This sounds like a true tragedy.
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