Help Requested (Vanity) - Legalities of Forced School Fundraising

8-31-10 | entrepreneur

[Entrepreneur]

Thanks for the link. Of course, the education is hardly free (all I have to look at is my property taxes), but that’s besides the point.

[smokingfrog]

It’s a crappy situation, but on the positive side, your kid is getting a good education about how some people can be total jerks.

[vbmoneyspender]

Read the authorities provided in the link.

[Entrepreneur]

I'm sure sports, drama and music are desireable, but when most school districts are scrambling to teach the traditional basics, it's a bit much to expect the discretional courses to continue business as usual.

I couldn't agree more. Of course, the district where I live is spending like drunken sailors, building multiple gyms per high school, additional rehearsal halls, new football stadiums, etc. Every HS in the district has an indoor football practice facility.

Frankly, I would love to let kids committed to theater seek opportunities with the community theater (my kid's done lots of stuff there). And I have no problem with fundraising by a community theater that does not assign school credits.

[vbmoneyspender]

Here is the applicable statute for Texas

See Link

Sec. 11.158. AUTHORITY TO CHARGE FEES. (a) The board of trustees of an independent school district may require payment of:

(1) a fee for materials used in any program in which the resultant product in excess of minimum requirements becomes, at the student's option, the personal property of the student, if the fee does not exceed the cost of materials;

(2) membership dues in student organizations or clubs and admission fees or charges for attending extracurricular activities, if membership or attendance is voluntary;

(3) a security deposit for the return of materials, supplies, or equipment;

(4) a fee for personal physical education and athletic equipment and apparel, although any student may provide the student's own equipment or apparel if it meets reasonable requirements and standards relating to health and safety established by the board;

(5) a fee for items of personal use or products that a student may purchase at the student's option, such as student publications, class rings, annuals, and graduation announcements;

(6) a fee specifically permitted by any other statute;

(7) a fee for an authorized voluntary student health and accident benefit plan;

(8) a reasonable fee, not to exceed the actual annual maintenance cost, for the use of musical instruments and uniforms owned or rented by the district;

(9) a fee for items of personal apparel that become the property of the student and that are used in extracurricular activities;

(10) a parking fee or a fee for an identification card;

(11) a fee for a driver training course, not to exceed the actual district cost per student in the program for the current school year;

(12) a fee for a course offered for credit that requires the use of facilities not available on the school premises or the employment of an educator who is not part of the school's regular staff, if participation in the course is at the student's option;

(13) a fee for a course offered during summer school, except that the board may charge a fee for a course required for graduation only if the course is also offered without a fee during the regular school year;

(14) a reasonable fee for transportation of a student who lives within two miles of the school the student attends to and from that school, except that the board may not charge a fee for transportation for which the school district receives funds under Section 42.155(d); or

(15) a reasonable fee, not to exceed $50, for costs associated with an educational program offered outside of regular school hours through which a student who was absent from class receives instruction voluntarily for the purpose of making up the missed instruction and meeting the level of attendance required under Section 25.092.

(b) The board may not charge fees for:

(1) textbooks, workbooks, laboratory supplies, or other supplies necessary for participation in any instructional course except as authorized under this code;

(2) field trips required as a part of a basic education program or course;

(3) any specific form of dress necessary for any required educational program or diplomas;

(4) the payment of instructional costs for necessary school personnel employed in any course or educational program required for graduation;

(5) library books required to be used for any educational course or program, other than fines for lost, damaged, or overdue books;

(6) admission to any activity the student is required to attend as a prerequisite to graduation;

(7) admission to or examination in any required educational course or program; or

(8) lockers.

(c) Students may be required to furnish personal or consumable items, including pencils, paper, pens, erasers, notebooks, and school uniforms, except that students who are educationally disadvantaged may be required to furnish school uniforms only as provided by Section 11.162.

(d) The board may not charge a fee under Subsection (a)(12) for a course to which Section 28.003 applies.

(e) This section does not prohibit the operation of a school store in which students may purchase school supplies and materials.

(f) A school district shall adopt reasonable procedures for waiving a deposit or fee if a student or the student's parent or guardian is unable to pay it. This policy shall be posted in a central location in each school facility, in the school policy manual, and in the student handbook.

(g) This section does not prohibit a board of trustees from charging reasonable fees for goods and services provided in connection with any postsecondary instructional program, including career and technology, adult, veterans', or continuing education, community service, evening school, and high school equivalency programs.

(h) For a fee charged under Subsection (a)(15), the school district must provide a written form to be signed by the student's legal guardian stating that this fee would not create a financial hardship or discourage the student from attending the program. The school district may only assess the fee if the student returns the signed form.

[meadsjn]

Public education is a welfare program for Education majors who would otherwise, and rightly, be employed as janitors, dishwashers, bus-persons, and such.

[vbmoneyspender]

1984 – The California Supreme Court decided Hartzell v. Connell, a challenge to the imposition of fees for extra-curricular activities by a public school district, imposed by a district to address a funding shortage due to declining enrollment and the passage of Proposition 13. (35 Cal.3d 899). The Court concluded that the “free school guarantee” extends to all programs that are “educational in character,” and that extracurricular activities such as sports, drama, vocal and instrumental music programs are “educational in character.” The Court stated that “the free school guarantee reflects the people’s judgment that a child’s public education is too important to be left to the budgetary circumstances and decisions of individual families.” The Court also concluded that:

* An activity need not result in course credit to be “educational in character.”

* A waiver process based on financial need or inability to pay does not make an otherwise impermissible fee permissible.

* Title 5, CCR section 350 is a reasonable interpretation of the “free school guarantee,” and a valid exercise of authority of the State Board of Education.

* The Legislative Counsel and CDE opinions addressed above were accurate summaries of the law.

[Entrepreneur]

Would that sort of education be worth it financially to your child even if it was free or discounted?

To my child or to me? Frankly, I don't think an undergrad degree matters all that much as long as a kid gets one. It's what a HS diploma used to be.

What kind of jobs would it help your child get upon graduation?

The goal (I've got to swallow hard here) is to become a professional opera singer. Yeah, laugh. It's not your kid.

So, what kind of jobs? Well, I'm doing my best to work with my child to learn how to create and run a business and making no bones about the fact that this is necessary to support an opera habit.

Would those jobs be high paying and worth the sacrifice or would your child end up working low-wage dead-end jobs even with such an education?

I support the pursuit of passion, whatever that might be. From passion, business opportunity results.

I don't mean to sound condescending but to me the arts in general sounds like a career field where you have a very small handful of people make a lot of money, but 99.9% of everyone else ends up working high stress, low wage type work with no real financial reward for their troubles.

You aren't condescending at all. I agree. And frankly, as one with multiple degrees who's father had four degrees, I'm unimpressed by sheepskins. But, I recognize the possession of one, regardless of the field, helps. And, after the first or second job, the nature of the degree matters not.

Is it really worth it to bend over backwards and give in when there is a good chance that there might be no real reward for the effort put in?

Here is where the utility of personal satisfaction trumps the utility of economics.

[Entrepreneur]

So if you want your child to participate in it either pony up the costs of your child’s participation yourself or sell the ads to cover the cost. Why is it you think you should get it for free?

Hey, no sweat on the payment. The band, for example, requires an activity fee. I would gladly pay one for this. And while it is "extracurricular," it's not. It's a credit class.

I'm offended that you think I believe I should get something for free. Give me half the money I pay in property taxes for schools and I could fund a great private school education. I pay. That's the point.

[Entrepreneur]

I understand the fund raisers. Part of what is driving me up the way is the kid did the requirement, but a business that paid in the past, mailed the check. Since it’s not in today, the department wants to kick my child out tomorrow. Literally.

Of course, if the school generates misery for my child, I will generate even more for the requisite teachers and administrators.

[Entrepreneur]

So because you get credit for taking an extracurricular activity you demand it be free?

Free? Hardly. I pay for it ten times over through my property taxes.

If the activity is extracurricular, don't tie it to grades. Make it truly extracurricular. If school credits apply and the school wants to require ad sales or charge an activity fee, then apply this uniformly. Shop classes should figure out a way to cover materials. Ditto for chemistry classes (gotta pay for that HCL), biology classes (frogs, you know), and every other class. No sweat.

[Entrepreneur]

So because you get credit for taking an extracurricular activity you demand it be free?

No. The school's made it a credit course. Get rid of the credit and my objection dissolves. Of course, every extracurricular activity should then, stand on its own.

[TheWriterTX]

Dear Entrepreneur,

The reason a lot of schools are tight on funds is simple; every time the FedGov slaps another layer of "administrative" oversight onto schools, it sucks money out of their budget to pay for a bean counter. Every time the school has to move further away from being an educational institution and towards being a nanny-state, babysitter, cook, nurse, counselor, etc., it costs money. In short, the schools can no longer provide all the same perks and opportunities it did when we were young because money is being sucked up by forced compliance with FedGov standards.

And don't forget insurance. Lots and lots of insurance. Parents sue over anything and everything nowadays. Just read the paper.

What is the program's budget? Is there compensation for the program director? Do they have to cover set construction, location rental, costume design, and the like? Even if they are holding class at the school, the school may charge a daily usage fee to cover lights, HVAC, and janitorial staff to keep the school open beyond normal school hours.

Nothing comes for free. The money either comes out of your taxes (apparently not the case) or it comes from funds raised by those in the group.

As an entrepreneur, you should know that insufficient revenue coming in means something has to be cut.

So yeah, have her sell another ad. This is an excellent life experience. You want something, you help pay to make it happen.

Or homeschool like I did. Even then, nothing was free. It still came out of Mom and Dad's pocket!

[Entrepreneur]

It is an OPTIONAL credit class. It isn’t like requiring getting credit or grades in History requires selling candy.

Yes, it is an elective. However, electives are required, including humanities.

[Entrepreneur]

What sort of BS is that?

Apparently it's the law.

You think the IRS makes group/club participation rules and for that matter could enforce them?

If it involves money, yes. You or I don't have to like it, but we've allowed them to accumulate that power.

Try that at the girl scouts, boy scouts, FFA or 4H. They are not charities.

Uh, what does this have to do with government schools?

[TheWriterTX]

I’m with you on the tax credit. If a voucher system existed, you would see the quality of education go up!

[Entrepreneur]

Smokingfrog, are you a TCU smoking frog?

[Talisker]

The school's made it a credit course. Get rid of the credit and my objection dissolves. Of course, every extracurricular activity should then, stand on its own.

Actually, it would be okay to make fundraising part of an extracurricular activity even if it was a credit course, as long as the student was not responsible for the behavior of others.

In other words, as long as the student shows up and does the activities, including the fundraising EFFORT, then no more can be asked. The most that can be assessed against the student is an F for effort, but with proof of effort in the promise to donate, that falls flat.

So if the effort doesn't raise any money, it's not the students fault as long as there was no violation of the operational curriculum.

And especially, to make the student responsible for whether a donor actually pays up, after the student did the fundraising and the donor promised, is clearly illegal. Students are not collection agencies, and credits cannot be hinged on whether they can succeed in shaing people down.

Unless, of course, it's a class on mastering credit collection techniques.

Otherwise, if I were you, I'd hit the school or district on this point and tell them you were going to sue if they didn't drop it - and suggest they give it to their attorney for review. They can't win on merit, so if they believe you'll actually sue, they'll drop it.

[kingu]

I'll likely only pay about $1400 for my daughter's last year in colorguard, which is about half of what it was last year (they went to the Nationals in Dayton OH) and likely half of what it'll cost for the Tokyo Disneyland trip they'll take next year (former members are welcome on the following big trip, if they'd like to go.)

Sure, they have ad sales for the program, but if the leader said ‘sell ads or be dropped’, the parents would string him up.

It sounds like they've chosen to solely fund the program from these stupid ads, and it's like car wash tickets - sell them or buy them yourself, because come hell or high water, all those tickets shall be sold (no, our program doesn't have such stupid requirements either.)

So write the check, and politely let the business know that you covered it for them, and they could pay at their convenience to you. Seems like a zero interest loan for people you know, and let the drama queens finish with their tizzy. I mean, it IS a drama program, what exactly did you expect?

[Entrepreneur]

Thanks for the link and work!