Posted on 08/13/2010 1:28:11 PM PDT by woofie
I understand the upset from not being told immediately about “friendly fire” (or why commanders would cover it up) but either way, friendly or not - their son is dead. This does not change the respect I have for the guy.
Tillman joined up willingly, in fact he gave up A LOT to go to Afghanistan. He wanted to be at the “tip of the spear.” I don’t believe anyone is even claiming negligence in how he died either.
In light of all this, I don’t understand Tillman’s parents’ anger after so many years.
My kid would have died in service of his country either way.
Knowing he was killed accidentally would only fuel bitterness & recriminations. It would make an unimaginally dreadful situation that much worse for no useful purpose.
Doesn’t matter. You, me, West Point General officers are supposed to rise above common, base faults.
There were/are any number of euphemism.
Since units from squads on up to divisions( used to anyways ) lose contact within themselves or neighboring units, being killed by your own is common as dirt, and not something to be ashamed of. The battle field is a immensely lethal place. As designed and trained for.
Stepping into the battlefield, weather heroically or just trying to do your task and stay alive is great enough.
There’s no reason to lie. Which, by the was denigrates the vast majority who did and do what they have to with varying degrees of insecurity tugging at their emotions. In some way the not too macho soldier, if you will the more worried soldier, that carry’s on is very heroic than those bothered and relishing the fight.
Tillman, his parents are/were very hippy dippy. No doubt they have decades of anti military baggage. McCrystal played right into their stereotypes.
Coming from that, I can understand where they are...as they say...coming from.
Thats just the thing - I don't see what the general, whom I dislike as much as anyone here for other reasons, did as being immoral or wrong.
Contrarily, his actions are entirely understandable.
Inept, but understandable.
And not just with enlisted men. One of the greatest American generals who ever lived, Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson died by friendly fire. Nervous pickets shot him while he was returning from a scouting ride behind the lines after dark. C'est la guerre.
I have not lost a son in battle. I don’t know the tillmans’ grief. I will not judge them at all, nor is there ANY purpose served by analyzing and judging their responses.
They are handling their “adversity’ the best they can, we are not “excusing “ grief reactions...they certainly haven’t murdered anyone in their grief. If everyone would just let them grieve however, this story would not go on and on.
I WILL judge the media who excacerbate this horrible situation as making money and fame off this accidental, but nobly inspired death.
I don’t know what Tillman’s family is trying to accomplish here. Mostly they are tarnishing his sincere desire to serve, his service and the honor many accorded him in death. For what? And why does any of this have to be done in public?
Apparently they “CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH”!
putting his death in the best light hurt no one
“I am curious that we have never heard from his brother who, I believe, was there at the time.”
From the linked article-
“Kevin Tillman was in a convoy behind his older brother, a former NFL star, on April 22, 2004, when Pat Tillman was mistakenly shot by other Army Rangers who had just emerged from a canyon where they’d been fired upon. Kevin Tillman didn’t see what happened.”
“Kevin Tillman, in his testimony, accused the military of “intentional falsehoods” and “deliberate and careful misrepresentations” in the portrayal of his brother’s death.
“Revealing that Pat’s death was a fratricide would have been yet another political disaster in a month of political disasters ... so the truth needed to be suppressed,” the brother said.
Updated: April 24, 2007, 10:52 PM ET
Tillman’s family, Lynch testify before Congress
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2847392
I could care less how offensive it is to you. It appears you must be a politican or a General Officer. We could most assuredly have won in Vietnam and to tell our fighting men and women they must see a weapon before returning fire is absolutely political. By the way I served in the military.If you know of what you appear to be insinuating you know what the statement means but it seems you wish to cover for politicians.
If that were provable, and it would easily be provable had it happened, McChrystal would have lost a star or two.
And even if it were true, Tillman’s family has done nothing but tarnish the memory of his service and his sacrifice. I’m beginning to wonder if their vendetta is not even about grief or some sort of “justice,” but just that they cannot give up the resentment and bitterness that they all thought they’d be living it up on Pat’s NFL and military stardom when he got back — and instead they might have been left financially hurt by his death.
At some point, they need to respect the fact that their son chose to do this, in part because he wanted to HONOR the service of the men in his family AND be a role model for others. His family is completely taking that away from him — as if his one dying wish is being stomped on by their selfish anger.
The Cardinals have placed a statute of Tillman in a memorial circle in front of their new stadium. Cannot the Tillman family be satisfied that year after year people will go there and reflect upon a man who gave up football to serve his country after 9/11 and who made the ultimate sacrifice of service? Isn’t that better than bitterly trying to diminish what Pat did?
And, again, I can guarandamntee if there was sufficient evidence that GEN McChrystal had intentionally acted to cover up Tillman’s cause of death as you state, he would have been cashiered immediately. Plus I don’t think people understand the process for signing citations of awards — these are NOT reviewed individually by the signer. There is an entire process, including sometimes an awards review board, that goes into effect before the citations are taken for signature. (And many citations are signed by autopen!)
I agree with you.
Yes, movement to contact is dangerous and often plunged into impulsively.
In this type of situation, it’s truly hard to tell how any one soldier was killed — and it’s a judgment call anyway on attributing his combat death to his standing up to wave off a shooter, his move to contact, friendly fire and so on.
If there was any doubt about how Tillman died, and I’m sure there was, I would hope the military would err on the side of calling it merely a combat death. I don’t see the point in a situation such as this of trying to parse out who exactly was responsible for the death.
Tillman was not sitting on a ship in the middle of the ocean that was accidentally bombed by the U.S. Air Force.
Yes.
I hate to say it but the longer this goes on, the more I start to wonder if maybe they just can't get over the fact that the almost "won the lottery" (access to a son making millions in the NFL). I don't know. It's just very strange to me that a man who made the statements Pat Tillman did about wanting to serve and do something for his country would have a family that doesn't seem to reflect that ethic at all.
How in the world do you know that Tillman’s family is “grieving,” never mind still acutely “grieving” after all these years?
How in Hell’s Bells do you know that their actions are motivated by “grief”?
It was a known fact and McChrystal admitted it. You say he would have lost a star or two. I say he should have, and the fact that he didn’t is the true scandal in this entire mess. As for his family, I have not read anything they have had to say about this matter, and the only thing I have to say about them is if I were lied to about how my son died I would be plenty pissed too.
That's as stupid a comment as I have seen here on FreeRepublic in the 10 years I've been posting.
I'd like to think so too, but I just have this nagging doubt about it.
Maybe it's my personal dislike of McChrystal...but "sufficient evidence" is fleeting in the heat of battle some times.
You have made some very excellant posts on this thread. I have read them and your analysis on this is very thorough.
I DON”T know if Grief distorted was the movitvating factor for the Tillman’s in all this. Anger can be a big part of grief and often people can not let go of that anger...be it justified or not. People can go their whole lives with their anger...And that is sad too for everyone.
You are right that going on and on with this is NOT honoring Tillman’s motives and actions.
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