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End the Drug War
Townhall.com ^ | June 16, 2010 | John Stossel

Posted on 06/16/2010 9:58:48 AM PDT by logician2u

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To: KingNo155

A very generous gesture.


121 posted on 06/20/2010 6:26:47 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: dragnet2
Yeah, you're right, Stossel must not be too concerned for their well-being when he proposes legalizing all illegal drugs.

I imagine that could throw a lot of government workers and contractors out of work, so both Republicans and Democrats will use that as an excuse to keep pot and like substances on the dangerous drugs list a while longer, or until this depression ends.

What was I thinking? All that additional tax revenue coming from the legal sale of a common weed that's now illegal would not even begin to pay for the unemployment benefits for the thousands of prison employees, parole officers, and drug counselors whose livelihood depends on continuing the WO(S)D. Not to mention the ones on the front lines, as it were: the SWAT teams, the trial lawyers, prosecutors, public defenders, bailiffs, jury commissioners . . am I leaving anyone out?

Oh, sure, the gang-bangers who deal in illicit drugs, whose entire income stream is tied to the perpetuation of the WO(S)D, would surely suffer the greatest as they'd have the most to lose if their product were legalized. They couldn't even draw unemployment benefits like everyone else.

And with this sick economy, where would they find a job? Nobody wants to hire someone with tattoos all over his face--that is, unless he can shoot 3-pointers from 40 feet out and get rebounds 7 times out of ten--and a rap sheet for a resume.

I guess it's pointless to even talk about ending a government program when it would put so many onto the welfare rolls.

122 posted on 06/20/2010 10:02:18 PM PDT by logician2u
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To: Persevero

I’m also afraid you can’t convince me that sending people to jail for growing plants has made the world a better place. All it’s done is give Mexican gangbangers an enormous financial advantage, almost to the point where the are more well armed than the government that is fighting them.


123 posted on 06/20/2010 10:55:09 PM PDT by Nate505
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To: Nate505

“I’m also afraid you can’t convince me that sending people to jail for growing plants”

It is not illegal to grow plants. That is a silly argument.


124 posted on 06/20/2010 11:38:36 PM PDT by Persevero (Replace Howard Dean with Alvin Greene! And name Alvin Man of the Year!)
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To: Persevero

It isn’t? It’s a felony in many states.


125 posted on 06/21/2010 1:01:00 AM PDT by Nate505
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To: MamaTexan
Hubby's job means he goes into people's homes to fix things.

He tells me their are a LOT more legally-drugged out soccer moms and higher income people than most folks realize.

What drugs do they use? Are they significantly different in pharmacological effect from illegal drugs?

126 posted on 06/21/2010 10:17:51 AM PDT by secretagent
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To: Persevero
And here in the middle, we have reasonable restraints on demonstrably anti-social behavior with plenty of personal freedom still intact. That’s where I am.”

I don’t advocate the outlawing of tobacco, caffeine, or moderate alcohol BECAUSE those three items have centuries of history proving they are not a source of anti-social behaviors.

I don't think we interpret the phenomena the same way.

I don't see drugs as a source of any behavior, other than at the most basic level.

People decide to behave or not, this way or that, to pretend they don't have a choice, or to pretend that "the drug made me do it".

Where you see illegal drugs enslaving individuals, I see individuals pretending, often to themselves, that they are enslaved.

127 posted on 06/21/2010 10:33:55 AM PDT by secretagent
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To: tacticalogic
As soon as it's about drugs, everybody falls all over themselves holding up beltway bureaucracies as a moral authority.

Yes, and local authorities as well. It serves a lot purposes, does the drug war.

128 posted on 06/21/2010 10:35:59 AM PDT by secretagent
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To: secretagent
Yes, and local authorities as well. It serves a lot purposes, does the drug war.

According to the Constitution, it is the jurisdiction of the local authorities, not the federal government. One of the purposes it serves is to make people forget there is a difference.

129 posted on 06/21/2010 10:41:49 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: secretagent

“I don’t see drugs as a source of any behavior, ‘

True, we have a different perspective.

First of all, I know that drugs lower inhibitions. While I don’t think they are an EXCUSE, since we do it to ourselves knowing the consequences, they change your perception of reality. They give you a high, “anything goes” attitude. And they make you irrational. This makes people around you very vulnerable, particularly dependents.

Secondly, they interfere with your basic motor skills. This makes people around you very vulnerable. Unless you are just sitting in your recliner.

Thirdly, they can make you unaware while awake or too deeply asleep when asleep. This makes those dependent upon you very vulnerable.

All of the above three points make you more dangerous to yourself, too, but of course that at least is just self-damage. While I don’t approve of it, it is sort of like suicide. You can’t really legislate against it. If someone wants to self-destruct badly enough, they will. I’d just make it illegal to help them along.

Fourthly, there is brain damage to varying degrees, depending on the drug, the intensity, the duration, etc. You may think, well, we get to damage our own brains if we want. However, brain damaged individuals need care. To suggest we leave them to rot in the compost of their own making is probably strictly libertarian, but not acceptable to me. I have a good friend who does genetic research on schizophrenia who has explained to me the nature of drug-induced psychosis. Most of the loonies who wander our big city streets were either drug abusers or were raised by drug abusers.

As to enslavement, I refer to addiction. Once you are physically or psychologically addicted to something, you are in slave status.


130 posted on 06/21/2010 11:03:57 AM PDT by Persevero (Replace Howard Dean with Alvin Greene! And name Alvin Man of the Year!)
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To: Nate505

No, it’s not a crime to grow plants.

It’s a crime to grow a certain plant.

No one is concerned about your begonias.


131 posted on 06/21/2010 11:06:25 AM PDT by Persevero (Replace Howard Dean with Alvin Greene! And name Alvin Man of the Year!)
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To: Persevero
I’d just make it illegal to help them along.

Okay. At what level of government would you implement and enforce it? If you do it at the federal level, will you do it by amendment, or by claim of authority under an enumerated power? If you're doing it under an already existing enumerated power, which one?

132 posted on 06/21/2010 11:11:12 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

“Okay. At what level of government would you implement and enforce it? If you do it at the federal level, will you do it by amendment, or by claim of authority under an enumerated power? If you’re doing it under an already existing enumerated power, which one? “

Ahem, ok, if I were King. . .

I would have each STATE legally define prescription drug abuse and recreational drug abuse.

I would go with the “class” system of drugs, classing them from OTC to the upper classes opiates and so forth.

I’d require doctor’s prescriptions for the higher class drugs.

I’d prosecute doctors for prescription fraud, drug dealers for selling higher class drugs illegally, drug abusers for possession of or intoxication by illegal drugs, and drug manufacturers for making drugs for illegal distribution.


133 posted on 06/21/2010 11:29:20 AM PDT by Persevero (It's going to be a long summer.)
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To: Persevero
I would have each STATE legally define prescription drug abuse and recreational drug abuse.

I would go with the “class” system of drugs, classing them from OTC to the upper classes opiates and so forth.

I’d require doctor’s prescriptions for the higher class drugs.

I’d prosecute doctors for prescription fraud, drug dealers for selling higher class drugs illegally, drug abusers for possession of or intoxication by illegal drugs, and drug manufacturers for making drugs for illegal distribution.

Just to clarify, are you the one laying all this out, and telling the States "you will write and enforce these laws to these specifications", or are you leaving it up the the States to decide?

134 posted on 06/21/2010 11:38:21 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Well, we are talking speculatively, now. I said if I were “king.”

But I am not actually in favor of a monarchy. So, yes, if we are heading towards reality, I believe it is the business of duly elected and accountable law making bodies of the state to make these laws. And the state’s job to enforce them.

Constitutionally, perhaps the feds can assist in pragmatic ways such as communications or some such, inter-border stuff, I don’t know.


135 posted on 06/21/2010 11:48:41 AM PDT by Persevero (It's going to be a long summer.)
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To: Persevero

What you describe seems to be substantially different than the drug war.


136 posted on 06/21/2010 11:51:18 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

“What you describe seems to be substantially different than the drug war.”

How so? Absence of federal intervention?


137 posted on 06/21/2010 11:52:55 AM PDT by Persevero (It's going to be a long summer.)
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To: Persevero
How so? Absence of federal intervention?

Absence of federal intervention, and recognition of the State's authority to make their own laws and manage enforcement within their own borders.

138 posted on 06/21/2010 11:58:23 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: secretagent
What drugs do they use?

Painkillers and anti depressants, mostly.

-----

Are they significantly different in pharmacological effect from illegal drugs?

I've seen the results of both, and IMHO, not really.

139 posted on 06/21/2010 12:14:05 PM PDT by MamaTexan (Dear GOP - "We Suck Less" is ~NOT~ a campaign platform)
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To: Persevero

People decide to give into their “lower inhibitions”, and some pretend that, once they get “high”, they can’t stop themselves from doing reprehensible actions like assault and robbery. I don’t want to give them that excuse.

Drugs can definitely interfere with motor skills, but morally responsible people, while under the influence of alcohol for example, still decide not to drive, since they would endanger others. I want to remove the dodge that “Once I got drunk, I couldn’t help myself”.

I want government to stop helping people hurt themselves and others by encouraging the myth that drugs have the power to enslave them.


140 posted on 06/21/2010 12:31:54 PM PDT by secretagent
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