Boldly going nowhere: Nasa ends plan to put man back on Moon

Obama ended the moon program

And a good thing he did, since it was outrageously expensive, based upon old tech, and guaranteed to kill another dozen or two highly-paid government employees while accomplishing nothing new. Constellation wasn't a moon program, it was a federal jobs program for the Kennedy launch pad crew and the gang over at the booster factory. There's a reason some people in the space industry called it "The ATK Thiokol Full Employment Act".

raise NASA's budget so they can pay people to get into earth orbit.

Actually, "President Obama’s budget proposal for 2011 calls for investing $6 billion over five years for probably two or more companies to develop spacecraft capable of carrying people into space. Then, instead of operating its own systems, like the space shuttles, NASA would buy rides for its astronauts on these commercial space taxis."[1]

Realistically, the odds of him being able to talk Congress into coughing up much of a budgetary increase for any kind of space stuff are as remote as the dark side of Uranus.

So were going to spend even more money paying private Contractors

Hiring privately-owned, profit-making space carriers...

[to do] what NASA already does...

...does not. Shuttle would be over whether the Prez cancelled Constellation or not. The damn ships are worn out!

...by using private contractors

That's a private contractor -- United Space Alliance. As in "government-funded, unionized monopoly".

But were still going nowhere.

Wrong again, O ye of little research. Bigelow "has two fully inflated test modules in orbit already, and will be buying 15 to 20 rocket launchings in 2017 and in each year after, providing ample business for the private companies that the Obama administration would like to finance for the transportation of astronauts into orbit — the so-called commercial crew initiative." [Ibid.]

SpaceX has two satellites on orbit as well, the most recently-launched of which is a test article for the manned crew/cargo ship they're going to launch soon. And let's not forget SpaceDev's upcoming Dream Chaser orbital spacecraft... the suborbital tourism gang over at Virgin Galactic... Masten Space's upcoming XA...

You may agree with Obama but please don't lump me in with your mindset.

I agree with him when he does something right.

And you have my solemn world that I will never consider you in any way a part of my mindset.

I actually want them to Go to the Moon...

"Them"? "Them" who? The federal government? For God's sake, we can't escape Uncle Sam here on Earth -- do we have to export bureaucrats and federal employee unions to the moon, too?

I don't want "them" to go to the moon. I want to go to the moon to escape "them". I want me and my family to go to the moon -- not as government employed astronauts, but as ticketed passengers on a privately-owned spaceship.

Wrong again, O ye of little research. Bigelow "has two fully inflated test modules in orbit already, and will be buying 15 to 20 rocket launchings in 2017 and in each year after, providing ample business for the private companies that the Obama administration would like to finance for the transportation of astronauts into orbit — the so-called commercial crew initiative." [Ibid.]

Orbit as I said Going nowhere we already done that. So your big revelation is were going to go into Orbit Not the moon just Orbit.

Color me underwhelmed.

No destination that is just really high above the earth.

A Destination is another place like the moon.

"Them"? "Them" who?

Astronauts are you really that thick? Instead of lolling around in earth orbit. I want them to actually go somewhere and make another place to live and work and explore.

Your position: mankind can only expand into space if we spend taxpayer dollars to fund a bloated, unionized government bureaucracy in order to send a small number of federal employees to the moon and other planets.

I don’t agree.

Your position"

Wrong again space cadet. My position is that Government will need to establish the moon base because Governments will never allow a private Corporation to do so.

You know it and I know it and you ain't gonna change the fact.

I have no problem with using private contractors to do so but we don't have to worry now because Obummer destroyed any chance of it happening within the next two decades... at least for the USA.

Other countries, well...

Government will need to establish the moon base because Governments will never allow a private Corporation to do so.

An interesting opinion. No data to support it, but interesting.

You know it and I know it and you ain't gonna change the fact.

I don't know it, because it's not a fact. It is your (entirely unsupported) opinion.

I have no problem with using private contractors to do so but we don't have to worry now because Obummer destroyed any chance of it happening within the next two decades...

Did you not read the NYT article at the link? Under the President's plan NASA is going to get out of the manned spaceflight business. That is what the new plan does. That means no more "space program"; NASA will charter privately-owned launch vehicles (and in time spacecraft and moonbases, etc.) for space purposes in the same way that the Feds charter privately-owned aircraft for government purposes today. They'll charter them first from the Russians as they do now; a few years from now, domestic commercial carriers will come on line for charters and NASA will taper off its business with the Rooskies.

Get it? From now on, the rockets NASA uses will not be NASA rockets; they will be privately-owned rockets. NASA can go back to being a policy/R&D agency, which is what it was created to be.

The next man to step on the moon will be an employee of a private corporation, not a NASA astronaut. And that is as it should be.

"I don't know it, because it's not a fact. It is your (entirely unsupported) opinion."

Unsupported? Really?

Ever heard of the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies"? Article VI of the Treaty deals with international responsibility, stating that "the activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty" and that States Parties shall bear international responsibility for national space activities whether carried out by governmental or non-governmental entities

Any questions?

Any questions?

Yes. What the hell are you talking about? You claimed that "Governments will never allow a private Corporation to [establish a lunar base]." The text you posted says nothing of the kind.

What it does say is that any private company operating on the moon must be authorized to do so by one of the countries signatory to the treaty — a fact which I do not dispute, and have not disputed.

I'm not sure there's any benefit to continuing this discussion. You make claims, fail to support them, and then ask if I have any questions. Well, yes, I do. My first question is: do I really care what you think on this topic?

The answer is "no". I therefore bid you good day.

"You claimed that "Governments will never allow a private Corporation to [establish a lunar base]."

Yes I did and a corporate owned lunar Base is impossible with that Treaty in place the signatories agreed that any such endeavor will be controlled by the State.

Read again these words: "shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty"

Any corporate Moon Base will be controlled by the Government period. So sez the Treaty. No doubt replete with a Federal LEO and a number of bureaucrats running things. The Government is not going to give away that control and no corporation is stupid enough to go and set up such when such a treaty exists.

So it will be a Nation State to setup the first Moon Base. Corps will no doubt go there and supply it and rent or purchase space on or near it but the Government will oversee it and regulate it.

Unless of course we withdraw from that treaty. Do you think Obama will?

hahahahah

Don’t care if people ignore me on this point.

The fiscal excess of the last 10 years, coupled with the absurdly insane spending of today make it inevitable that manned space programs will be canned.

I don’t have to do a thing to make it happen.

Any corporate Moon Base will be controlled by the Government period. So sez the Treaty. No doubt replete with a Federal LEO and a number of bureaucrats running things. The Government is not going to give away that control and no corporation is stupid enough to go and set up such when such a treaty exists.

So it will be a Nation State to setup the first Moon Base. Corps will no doubt go there and supply it and rent or purchase space on or near it but the Government will oversee it and regulate it.

Unless of course we withdraw from that treaty. Do you think Obama will?

That's why I don't like treaties, they put more shackles on us than they help us. My view is they are made to be broken anyways but like you said, this will not happen under Bammy.

I know this will not happen under Bammy as well, but I liked the idea of former talkshow host, Chuck Harder, where if we did gear up for the Moon and Mars landings, this will rejuvenate the lost spirit in America along with creating lots of jobs here at home.

Myself, if a private entity want to explore space and so on, let them and encourage policies that will foster that. However, like in the days of Columbus and the early 1600's, exploration was mainly a government funded activity, for better or worse, and I really don't object the Federal Government spearheading the way, at least we get returns from it instead of throwing it down a welfare black hole.