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Open Carry Advocates: Shooting Themselves in the Foot
Pajamas MEdia ^ | April 29 | Bob Owens

Posted on 04/29/2010 10:38:21 AM PDT by AJKauf

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To: Sherman Logan

>My point is that it isn’t a good idea to give your enemies extra ammunition, even if it’s your legal and constitutional right to do so.

Perhaps... but there is a time to fight things. Consider this, New Mexico’s Constitution contains a Right to Keep and Bear arms which, in no uncertain terms, forbids the state from passing laws to abridge “the right of the Citizen” to defense. {Not even ‘self-defense’ exclusively; the portion on inherent rights of man (as recognized by the state) contains a portion on the right to defend one’s PROPERTY.} Furthermore, it prohibits any “county or municipality” from “regulating, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.” This means that, strictly speaking, using “disturbing the peace” as an excuse to prohibit people from carrying openly is forbidden.

Now, keeping the previous in mind, the state has a State Statute [30-7-2.4] which prohibits firearms on campus.

So now New Mexican citizens are disbarred the use of their guns on campus despite a CONSTITUTIONAL injunction against it. You may see where I’m going with this, it is the Law of Non-Contradiction; the axiom in Logic which says that a statement cannot be both true and false at the same time.

If I take my Glock on campus, open carry, would the following statement [uttered by me] be true, or would it be false:
“I am not doing anything illegal.”

It cannot be both, it must be one or the other; the answer is if vital importance. {And no BS on ‘it depends on how you look at it.’}

If it is true, then the problem is that there is a lie about the legality of firearms on campus. If, however, it is false then the State Constitution doesn’t matter. If the State Constitution doesn’t matter, then the State Legislature & Judiciary have no [legitimate] authority... in which case ALL [state] laws are invalid.

>I can guarantee you that a large majority of Americans view this behavior as scary and radical. I don’t agree, but the majority wins in this case.

Maybe it’s time for something “scary and radical.” I’m tempted to take my gun on campus and press the issue. If I win then the contradiction will be cleared up; if I lose it’s only a petty misdemeanor.


101 posted on 04/29/2010 5:23:16 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Dan Nunn

But you ignore a page from the democrat playbook - incrementalism. We still have a large number of people who are terrified of firearms. Hoplophobia is not rational. It’s the product of decades of effort to demonize self defense. The propaganda machine against us is remarkably powerful and it won’t give up so easily. Any opportunity to demonize shooters will be exploited. Those two Associated Press stories demonstrate that.

The N.R.A. said that it didn’t want to argue the second amendment in court because it wanted to change the thinking of legislators, else they would find ways to weasel around any other gains we’d made. They’re already doing that in Chicago and Washington, D.C.

The strategy was working. Gun owners used the crime wave of the 1980s to change a relatively insignificant gun law in Florida and reflect the progress on the national news. Now you can carry a loaded gun in your car in Florida. No shootouts happened. Now you can get a concealed carry permit in Florida. No shootouts happened. Now you can get a non-resident carry permit in Florida. No shootouts happened. In the 25 years since those changes were made, concealed carry became an issue that carried in all but the most dank, liberal hellholes.

The strategy is working. I see no reason to change it. We have not carried the whole country yet.


102 posted on 04/29/2010 5:40:23 PM PDT by sig226 (Mourn this day, the death of a great republic. March 21, 2010)
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To: AJKauf

The police receive training on weapons retention yet many are killed every year with their own weapon, so open carry will just produce easier targets for the criminals and let the bad guys know who is armed and who is not, makes their work safer for the criminal.

*************

It is obvious you don’t know your fact, because I have the 2009 officer memorial list in front of mepublished by the American Federation of police and concerned citizen, and not a single officer was killed with his own firearm in 2009.in the Memorial a listing of110 officers were killed in the line of duty, 42 by assailants firearms.

Since I know these reported facts it is obvious you’re pulling your opinion out of thin air. It is disingenuous on your part to spread such inaccurate information.


103 posted on 04/29/2010 5:46:41 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER ( “IThf you're not ready to die for it, put the word ''freedom'' out of your vocabulary.” – Malcol)
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To: usurper; Pessimist

>>And any cop shop that would make a patrolman conceal must be in some Worker’s Paradise.
>
>I know literally hundreds of LEOs across the country and I have never met one who would open carry off duty unless they were out in the woods hunting or something.

There is an ancient Chinese saying that may apply here:
“A foolish idea held by thousands, is still a foolish idea.”

To connect this to your point about knowing hundreds of officers; imagine how they would react to the following scenario:
- Someone is open carrying on campus.
- There is a state statute forbidding firearms on campus.
- The State Constitution clearly states that “No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms”
- The officer responding knows all the above.

Would the officer arrest him?
Would the officer ignore him?
Would the officer talk to him about “scaring people”?
Would the officer intimidate him about ‘breaking the law’?


104 posted on 04/29/2010 5:48:36 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: RedMonqey

LOL / Awesome story; thank you for sharing it.


105 posted on 04/29/2010 5:50:56 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Spok
Open carry is not assault, brandishing, or disorderly conduct in any jurisdiction in the US according to the USSC. Simply open carrying isn't even a legal basis to ask a person for ID and many police and their agencies have been sued for doing just that.

Open carry is the act of law abiding citizens who are not ashamed of their rights or criminally inclined.

There is a special kind of insanity that believes that a hidden gun will deter a criminal attack but a visible one will not. Concealed carry makes for a slower draw adn increases the likelihood that a criminal will be successful.

It's strange that there are so many stories of concealed carriers being attacked by criminals and so few of open carriers. The sight of a gun deters criminal actions.

106 posted on 04/29/2010 6:15:46 PM PDT by Dayman (My 1919a4 is named Charlotte. When I light her up she has the voice of an angel.)
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To: SoldierDad
we cave in on issues in order to not “offend” others

It's not a question of caving. It's a question of not scareing the hell out of them before you try to convince them.

It's just a question of being smart, that's all.

107 posted on 04/29/2010 8:34:05 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Prezdet Obama is what you get when you let the O.J. jury select a president !)
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To: Dan Nunn
If you think you can carry openly in anywhere but a very deserted, hunting or such area and you can look at people and know somehow that you do not scare them, then you need to see a physician.

Eye doctor or headshrinker; I'll let you decide.

108 posted on 04/29/2010 8:38:01 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Prezdet Obama is what you get when you let the O.J. jury select a president !)
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To: Dan Nunn
Please do not tell me what I am saying. You are often be wrong, as you are here.

I have not expressed an opinion on open carry.

All I've said is that if open carry advocates do not understand that open carry scares most people, then their thinking process needs a close evaluation.

One does not convince people by scareing them.

One other thing. If you advocate completely Open Carry, then you are defending the “rights” of a convicted child molester to follow your 8 year old daughter or granddaughter home from her school bus stop, with a pistol in his hand, as long as he stays on public property, such as a sidewalk, and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

Go for it.

109 posted on 04/29/2010 8:44:08 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Prezdet Obama is what you get when you let the O.J. jury select a president !)
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To: MindBender26

So, how do you convince people that concealed carry or open carry is safe unless you demonstrate that it is safe?


110 posted on 04/29/2010 8:46:33 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Papa of two new Army Brats! Congrats to my Soldier son and his wife.)
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To: SoldierDad
So, how do you convince people that concealed carry or open carry is safe unless you demonstrate that it is safe?

Open Carry demonstrates nothing other than you can scare people.

How?

You start a good PR campaign. Begin with free gun safety classes for kids. Promote then through the private schools first. More likely to have conservative business owner parents.

Then get media involved. First find the most conservative MSM in town. Probably the local Fox affiliate.

Be prepared for lots of flak. Counter it with education, not Wyatt Earp.

There is much more you can do, and win, but scareing the hell out of people is not how to do it.

111 posted on 04/29/2010 8:58:42 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Prezdet Obama is what you get when you let the O.J. jury select a president !)
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To: MindBender26

Got news for ya - those who are “scared” about open carry or concealed carry will not be moved by your “education”.


112 posted on 04/29/2010 9:00:25 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Papa of two new Army Brats! Congrats to my Soldier son and his wife.)
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To: AJKauf

Soon we will all be forced to carry...


113 posted on 04/29/2010 9:16:44 PM PDT by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: AJKauf

“Recoil in horror” - maybe wet themselves, too.


114 posted on 04/29/2010 9:22:35 PM PDT by little jeremiah (http://lifewurx.com - Good herb formulas made by a friend)
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To: Spok

There’s a difference between “brandishing” and having a nice little holster strapped on.


115 posted on 04/29/2010 9:23:32 PM PDT by little jeremiah (http://lifewurx.com - Good herb formulas made by a friend)
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To: RedMonqey

You live in a different state/county than I do, for sure.

Obviously America (at least the part you’re referring to) needs to change its conditioning.


116 posted on 04/29/2010 9:25:42 PM PDT by little jeremiah (http://lifewurx.com - Good herb formulas made by a friend)
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To: ColdWater
Here's a good one. Can only be drawn straight up, which makes it difficult for anyone to snatch it.


117 posted on 04/29/2010 9:34:39 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Dan Nunn

Check my # 117. GMTA!


118 posted on 04/29/2010 9:38:04 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Eastbound
Looks pretty close to the Blackhawk Serpa.
That's what I have for my G 17. I've been looking for something like the Serpa or similar that would sit 3 to 4 inches lower and still accommodate a Glock safely.
119 posted on 04/29/2010 9:45:41 PM PDT by The Cajun (Mind numbed robot , ditto-head, Hannitized, Levinite)
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To: The Cajun
Something like this? Looks like it's slung a few inches lower.


120 posted on 04/29/2010 10:19:36 PM PDT by Eastbound
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