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My final thought on the birther issue
Red State ^ | February 14, 2010 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 02/15/2010 2:06:27 AM PST by FTJM

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To: jamese777
Unfortunately, there is no state or federal law and no US Supreme Court decision that has ever definitively defined the term “natural born citizen.”

Then it's about time we had one, a SCOTUS decision that is. Congress cannot redefine a Constitutional term of art, because that would constitute a change to the Constitution itself, which they can only initiate through the amendment process.

221 posted on 02/16/2010 3:23:04 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: Jim Noble
Just a quick followup: Is it your position that elections are subject to post-hoc review by Article III courts?

Yes. If there was fraud, such as wholesale vote miscounting and/or an ineligible cannidate/office holder is discovered, then the courts can act. Fraud is a crime after all, and someone not eligible to hold an office surely cannot be left in possession of it. Why should the People (another term of art) suffer because of the crimes of cannidates or their organizations. Mere errors in the process are another matter.

Is that power one that you are comfortable with courts exercising?

Like all other exercises of power, it must be done with extreme caution. But someone has to do it. You want the party in power to guard the hen house? That is surely the other alternative. That gets you Tammy Hall, and worse, much worse.

222 posted on 02/16/2010 3:29:48 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: philman_36
You're on the working end of the come-along now

We all do what we can.

223 posted on 02/16/2010 3:31:15 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: browardchad
Natural born and “by birth” are one in the same in the year 2010, in these United States of America.

Where is that written?

224 posted on 02/16/2010 3:33:07 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
Natural born and “by birth” are one in the same in the year 2010, in these United States of America.

It's the 1787 meaning that is of interest. What you, or anyone else thinks it is now, doesn't count. What it meant when the contract was written, in 1787, that is what counts.

I don't know how you can even say what it means in 2010, since that part of the contract has never come up, although it should have once, so its meaning has not been adjudicated.

225 posted on 02/16/2010 4:04:29 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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Comment #226 Removed by Moderator

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To: another normal person
If the child is born outside the country to one citizen parent, there is no need to raise hand, etc. That child is considered to be a natural born citizen.

No, they are not even considered native born for Constitutional purposes. The 14th amendment doesn't even apply to them, since they were not "born or naturalized in the United States". There is Supreme Court precidence on that.

Now statute law says they are not naturalized, but Supreme Court case law says they are. They must be, since they are citizens strictly due to an act of Congress under the power "To Establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization." That is even true if both parents were citizens, except probably those born in the armies of the state or it's diplomatic corps.

Even the US State Department, in it's U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 7 - Consular Affairs> Consular Affairs Manual, "Acquisition of Citizenship By Birth Abroad To US Parent" manualacknowledges that:

the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.

228 posted on 02/17/2010 4:17:58 PM PST by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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