Spin from the BBC about Darwin (devoted to absolving Darwinism from revolutionary evolutionism)

CMI ^ | October 22, 2009 | Russell Grigg

[GodGunsGuts]

Surely you know my position by now!

[dirtboy]

Hitler's own words (from post 115):

From where do we get the right to believe that man was not from the very beginning what he is today. A glance in Nature shows us , that changes and developments happen in the realm of plants and animals. But nowhere do we see inside a kind, a development of the size of the leap that Man must have made, if he supposedly has advanced from an ape-like condition to what he is’ (now)

His own words.

Not the interpretation of someone with their own agenda. His own words.

You are entitled to your own opinion. But not your own facts.

[dirtboy]

Notice also they way you evolutionists keep shifting around to avoid our points. I speak of "Nazis" and you ignore 99.99% of them, instead citing Hitler's weird beliefs.

Uh, dude, Hitler FOUNDED National Socialism.

Can you cope with the fact that the majority of the Nazi intelligentsia were much more doctrinaire evolutionists - just like you?

I'm not a doctrinaire evolutionist. Just opposed to deliberate ignorance.

[whattajoke]

you wanted your threads in the news forum, realize that having them located here means much more open guidelines than the Religion forum.

Thank you for clearing this up, Admin. I will no longer ask GGG why/how he continues to post Christian creationist apologetics in the "news" forum on FR. I understand now he simply asked and he got what he wanted - with a very fair caveat.

Please note, if I were one to hit the abuse button (I never have in 8 years), I could have done it on this GGG post from yesterday, which is merely an advertisement for a conference... Or this one which is another advertisement for a book.

I rarely venture into Religion for as we all know, the rules are slightly different there - which is fine by me.

[Liberty1970]

So which evolutionist did Marx use as the foundation of his beliefs?

He was a philosopher. As such it was ideas, not people, upon which his thinking was based. So you ought to have asked which version of evolutionism.

At that time I don't think it is necessary to subdivide evolutionism and say Marx favored one above another. Though since his time, punk eek has clearly been identified with Marxism, over and against gradualistic evolutionism. (I.e, as reflected in the writings of the late Stephen J. Gould and Niles Eldredge.)

One could also mention the Soviet reliance on Lysenko and his strange allegiance to Lamarkism, with persecution of dissenters, such that Soviet biology research and prestige suffered lasting damage. But again that is after the fact - I can't think offhand why Marx would have wedded himself to Lamarck over and against other evolutionary theories. The key point, for Marx, was the denial of a Creator God and the assumption that 'morality' is a creation of whomever happens to be in power.

[Admin Moderator]

What part of knock it off, regarding xcamel’s sobriety, do you not understand? Don’t try to sneak in one last shot under cover of acknowledgement.

[dirtboy]

So you ought to have asked which version of evolutionism.

So please, find us a published version of evolutionary theory that was present before Marx wrote The Communist Manifesto.

[GodGunsGuts]

==Please note, if I were one to hit the abuse button (I never have in 8 years)

You just did.

[dmz]

Surely you know my position by now!

<><><><><><><

LOL. Of course I do and of course you saw right through me.

But I don’t think Wendy has a good grasp on what you think of self-professed Christians who think the earth is as much as 2 million years old (certainly no younger than 200K), and who do not believe that God created the earth in 6 literal 24 hour days, per a literal reading of Genesis.

Can you help a sister out?

[xcamel]

The concept of true communism goes all the way back to the Plymouth colony - and they all damned near starved to death. They were strict creationists too. (predating evolutionary science)

[Natural Law]

"We already guessed that you have set yourself up against God."

I have set myself against evil disguised as God. God gave us intelligence, reason and the knowledge of the difference between good and evil. To refuse to accept and use those gifts is an insult to the Creator.

...for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,

- Romans 11:28-30

[GourmetDan]

"I have set myself against evil disguised as God. God gave us intelligence, reason and the knowledge of the difference between good and evil. To refuse to accept and use those gifts is an insult to the Creator."

No, God gave us His Word to be obedient to. The knowledge of evil renders fallen intelligence and reason unreliable. To refuse to accept and obey the Word is an insult to the Creator.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

2 Tim 3:16-17

[scripter]

How do you do that strikeout thingy?

Here ya go: <strike>Text to strike</strike>

[ElectricStrawberry]

Gee....that’s because Dawrin had nothing to do with and no responsibility for the Holocaust.

I don’t blame every wrongful firearm death on the first guy to invent the firearm either.

[dmz]

The key point, for Marx, was the denial of a Creator God and the assumption that ‘morality’ is a creation of whomever happens to be in power.
<><><><><><><><

I see. So it was not evolution that was the foundation of Marx’s theory. It was the denial of God and moral relativity.

Don’t need evolution for those 2 key points.

[Tax Government]

Ideas have consequences; the consequences of evolutionism obviously include a couple of hundred million dead bodies lying around and Europe being turned into a pig pen twice in one century by total wars.

Honestly, I have never read a statement on FR as un-credible as this one. Congrats.

[Natural Law]

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching"

At the time Abraham was commanded to sacrifice his son and Joshua was commanded to commit war crimes it was not yet scripture. They proved that they were no better than those who sacrificed children to Baal. Maybe you and I have different Gods. My God would not command you or me to commit an unconscionable act in His name.

[mnehring]

Gee....that’s because Dawrin had nothing to do with and no responsibility for the Holocaust. I don’t blame every wrongful firearm death on the first guy to invent the firearm either.

That's because, per a site GGG links to all the time, association like that is a propaganda tactic.

http://creationsafaris.com/crevbd.htm

Whenever you see it, again, per GGG's own creation website, you know it is 'Baloney'.

Association (transfer)
Definition:  Associating what you want to promote with something people like, or something you want to criticize with something people dislike.
Examples, negative:  My opponent is just like Hitler. Lyndon Johnson’s anti-Goldwater TV commercial showing a little girl picking a flower followed by an atomic bomb explosion, implying his opponent was trigger-happy Calling someone who disagrees with quotas a racist. Listing creationism alongside pseudosciences like astrology, spiritism and ESP: “...to require teachers to give serious consideration to creationism is as unjustified as requiring them to teach other doctrines – such as astrology, alchemy and phrenology...”

...again, just using GGG's side's own definition.

[liberalism is suicide]

Marx wasn’t responsible for Stalin’s mass starvation of Ukranians,either,but his noxious ideas made it easier for the commies to “justify” it.

[wendy1946]

Do you often cite serial adulterers as authorities on morality?

In the particular case of Gingrich the guy has something profound and real to say. Chuck Darwin on the other hand basically claimed that the only moral law in nature was "survival of the fittest" and that basic idea has gotten tens of millions of people killed since Chuck's time. Choosing between the two is or should be fairly easy.